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Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by standardUser on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:29PM (#23023863)
"...and assume (generously) herd immunity effects at 70% that halt the progression..."

That's not generous, or not generous, it's just a ballpark guess based on the best (conflicting) data we have so far. You're also discounting the fact that with every individual to gain immunity, the transmission rate is reduced. You're also extrapolating from what may be the worst possible phase of this virus. As time passes we develop better treatments and medications, we have more necessary equipment where it needs to be, we have better early detection and so on.

"...you're looking at mortality rate that swamps that of all wars, terrorist attacks, and natural disaster"

Lots of things swamp those numbers. For example, the flu.

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by Terretta on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:40PM (#23024000)
At peak flu season, is seasonal flu the leading cause of death week over week, month over month, ahead of heart disease and cancer?

I haven't looked it up, but 55,000 flu/pneumonia deaths a year is about 153 a day, compared to COVID-19 running near 2,000 a day:

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1727839/

This visualization is from before the acknowledgement that COVID-19 deaths were only counting confirmed positive / presumed positives from the earlier set of CDC symptoms, not the 3x larger set of symptoms revised last week.

Also doesn't account for second order deaths such as those with other health problems not seeking treatment from an overloaded system, or providers in the system committing suicide from PTSD.

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by tptacek on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:45PM (#23024055)
55k/yr is also much higher than the actual average number of flu fatalities per year, which is closer to 35k even if you include the preliminary stats from the last 2 years (which captures the particularly bad flu year we had in the '17-18 season).
Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by arcticbull on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:33PM (#23026583)
On the other hand, you can't discount the fact that 20-60K Americans die of the flu each year after we developed a vaccine due to its propensity to mutate. The vaccine is only 10-60% effective depending on the year, while early signs are pointing to COVID not mutating in the same way so a single vaccine (or single infection) may be enough to protect you -- potentially for a very long time.

Taking into account the lack of all immunity to and lack of vaccine for COVID to date, and just how much more virulent COVID is (therefore front loading the disease burden) in the full course of time the flu is almost certainly going to take a much, much larger toll.

It's killed 600,000 people per year, each and every year you've been alive worldwide. So far, COVID is at 1/3 of a year's worth of flu deaths -- let alone a lifetimes -- and are approaching 25%+ of the population of some high profile cities infected. Once it gets to 70% or so, it's most likely going to burn itself out due to herd immunity.

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by tptacek on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:49PM (#23026664)
Why are you moving the goalposts? We're discussing US mortality figures, and in the US we have good stats on this, and they average out to ~36k fatalities annually.
Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by arcticbull on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:57PM (#23026717)
I'm not moving any goalposts, goalposts remain in tact. And I'm using the same source: both numbers come from the CDC. So for your reading pleasure:

"It's killed 20-60K people per year, each and every year you've been alive in the US. So far, COVID is at about a year's worth of a bad flu deaths in the US -- let alone a lifetimes -- and are approaching 25%+ of the population of some high profile cities infected. Once it gets to 70% or so, it's most likely going to burn itself out due to herd immunity."

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by tptacek on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:37PM (#23023955)
That the flu is a reasonable baseline was obvious enough that I included it in the comment you responded to. The comparison is not reassuring. And the notion that "every individual that gains immunity reduces transmission rate" is exactly what "herd immunity" captures.
Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by standardUser on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @06:41PM (#23025416)
Herd immunity occurs when enough members of a population are immune to make sustained transmission impossible. But the transmission rate declines with every immune member of a population, far before herd immunity occurs. Same logic, but a different phenomenon, and one most people seem to overlook.
Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by anoncareer0212 on Thursday April 30, 2020 @12:55AM (#23027569)
You're trying to bring galactic brain thought to a rather mundane, simple, calculation. (Fine, 1993) Please don't try to be a contrarian when out of your field, you end up making 'not even wrong' statements
Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by anoncareer0212 on Thursday April 30, 2020 @12:53AM (#23027552)
It brought me great delight to watch you confidently declare _you_ are the one with a full nuanced and fair grasp of this situation.

You calculate herd immunity % from R0, and it's odd to decide 70% is not generous and ballpark guess because you think the data "conflicts" - there's no "conflicting" between values in a range, go ahead and cherry-pick the lowest R0 you've seen and find out what the herd immunity % required is based on that (higher than 70%)

Won't even touch you trying to pretend this is the same as the flu, plenty of other threads address that.

I've made it clear already, but just to reiterate, this is one of the worst comments I've seen on HN in a while.