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Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by hysan on Monday April 27, 2020 @06:18PM (#23000771)
It's scary. I was laid-off this month due to COVID-19. Luckily, I am getting paid for one more month because of the WARN Act. I've been looking, but it has been difficult since I'm competing with all the more senior co-workers and peers who were also laid-off.

So how is my budget?

* I know that there will be a time gap between being able to apply for unemployment and receiving it. The unemployment systems in the US are still overwhelmed.

* Since my wife is on my health insurance plan, COBRA is going to be very expensive.

* We moved recently for my job, so a lot of the savings we had are already gone.

We have some runway, but no where near enough to feel safe. We are one of those edge cases where we took a risk, it paid off and life was great, but it didn't last long enough for us save up again so things are looking grim. So finally...

> Yet when I read Redditors talk about quarantine, you'd think everyone in the world was getting paid time off to play Animal Crossing at home or they live at mom's house rent-free. And it seems like it's this crowd that's likely to be pushing for staying in lockdown with no end in sight.

We both still are 100% for maintaining the quarantine. No we are not living some relaxing lifestyle at home. I've been quite stressed out. However, I also know that I would never forgive myself if I contributed to breaking quarantine early and that caused a chain reaction of hospitals to be overrun again and leading to my parents, a relative, or an old friend to die because they could not get the proper treatment.

There is a lot I want to rant about, but rather than that, I would like to leave these thoughts:

Stop thinking of the solution as being so black and white. Lifting the quarantine isn't the only way to help everyone who has been impacted. For example, why not have the same government bodies that enacted the quarantine do something just as drastic to save those who were impacted? What other solutions are out there?

Also, if lifting the quarantine leads to more deaths, then remember that there is an economic impact there too. Have you ever paid for a funeral? I have and at a young age too. It burned a hole in my savings. That set me back several years in saving and investing in myself. Imagine doing the same to the generation of young adults whose parents are in the risk factor group. Far too many of the comments I read, even on HN, are seeing things only through the lens of what politicians say. Outside of compiling raw statistics, I've seen very little independent thought on how to solve the current problems in society.

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by x0x0 on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:26PM (#23001411)
If your wife is working and has health insurance, you probably both qualify for special enrollment onto hers. And as a neighbor said, Covered California (ie CA's Obamacare) will enroll you. The other thing that may help is you have 60 days to enroll into cobra. You can wait until eg day 55 before seeing if you used it, as long as you have the cash to float if something happens and you end up needing to enroll.

FWIW, SF Fire CU in the bay area has credit cards that charge 7.5% rather than the 25%-ish at Capital One or Citi.

Hope this helps in some tiny way.

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by stevenwliao on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:49PM (#23001628)
If you enroll in COBRA within 60 days, you can retroactively claim coverage. If you have current cashflow issues but have only minor healthcare expenses, you can wait to see if you need it.

Of course before going this route, check with a reputable source.

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by hysan on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:31PM (#23002350)
Note: This was back when I lived in NY and I know this differs by state, so this is not all around advice.

I’ve been on COBRA twice before using the 60 day “trick” due to recession related lay-offs. Luckily, the previous times I didn’t have cash flow issues, but I did learn that to get reimbursed once you opt-in and pay those back months can take many, many weeks. So while it may seem like you possibly extending your cash flow, you are actually playing a risky game of chance. Cash flow will end up being far worse off if you get unlucky.

I know I’ve replied more than once in this thread shooting down suggestions, but do know that I appreciate the advice. I’ve just lived life having quite a few unlucky events at bad times, so I’ve learned to always consider how worse off things can be for others.

What I was hoping for with my post was to solicit actual introspection and suggestions for alternative fixes that the HN community could iterate on. So please, I hope people will focus on that instead of my situation. Thank you.

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by muzz on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @03:57AM (#23004668)
Perhaps a nit, but COBRA is always retroactive

https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Programs-and-Initiatives/Other-Ins...

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by exhilaration on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:10PM (#23001259)
Since my wife is on my health insurance plan, COBRA is going to be very expensive.

Instead of COBRA, can you get on an Obamacare ACA plan? That might be much cheaper.

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by hysan on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:16PM (#23001310)
My wife is a certified social worker and knows just about everything there is about that. It’ll be cheaper but far worse in terms of coverage and deductibles. So it’s an option for stretching budget, but it’s not a good solution if anything significant happens. I’ll ask her if she knows what’s changed with regards to COVID-19 related cases, but my guess is that nothing in terms of coverage has changed. So given the current world circumstances, switching would be akin to taking a giant gamble on your health.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by redisman on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @01:05AM (#23003577)
Unless you have pre-existing conditions or very expensive and rare prescriptions, it's probably worth the gamble to go to something like a silver plan at this point. How many months of COBRA would you pay until you reach the max out of pocket payout for the silver plan is some math you should do. You can scale that based on your risk tolerance.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by geerlingguy on Monday April 27, 2020 @08:56PM (#23002114)
An equivalent plan in my state (MO) is 2.5x more expensive (monthly), with a higher deductible and fewer available in-network providers :(
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by chris11 on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @12:04AM (#23003242)
Is medicaid a good option? I think you should qualify in California. Also, I don't know your situation, but has your health needs changed recently? I know Kaiser is trying to limit unnecessary office visits.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by PopeDotNinja on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @12:31AM (#23003387)
In California, Obamacare IS Medical (aka Medicaid). I signed up once. I couldn't get my Vyvanse for my ADHD because it's a controlled substance, and the Medical doctor wouldn't touch a prescription for it.

Pro-tip:. If you pay out of pocket for your regular doctor (maybe tell then your situation and work out a deal), you can get Medical to pay for the prescription (verify before trying).

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by masonic on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @04:58AM (#23005088)

  Obamacare IS Medical (aka Medicaid)
No, Obamacare is Covered CA.

Medicaid is called MediCal, except persons in the US illegally can get it, too.

  If you pay out of pocket for your regular doctor... you can get Medical to pay for the prescription 
That's a felony.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by blendo on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:42PM (#23001571)
On my California Kaiser plan, COBRA was about 35% cheaper than the equivalent Covered California offering.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by malyk on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:12PM (#23001278)
you don't have to pay for cobra until you need it though, so you could get out spending $0, iirc.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by justin66 on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:47PM (#23001610)
There is a grace period before you have to start paying, and the dates should be on the letter you receive when you leave your employer. The grace period does not last forever, and when it's almost up, you need to pay several months at once to get coverage. (another comment suggests these rules might vary somewhat by state, and I'm sure that is also possible)
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by masonic on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:56PM (#23003196)
For ACA, policies, the grace period is forever. Job loss is a "life event" that lets you jump in any time, not just an arbitrary open enrollment window.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by justin66 on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @01:00AM (#23003549)
The grace period to start paying for a plan under the ACA is 60 days, not "forever." It's true that you don't need to wait for open enrollment, a special enrollment period opens for you when you lose your job.

edit: I'm not sure there's any grace period at all with the ACA. You have 60 days to sign up, but unlike COBRA, I don't see any evidence you can start using the insurance without paying for it first, which is the nice thing about the COBRA grace period.

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage-outside-open-enrollment/...

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by masonic on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @05:02AM (#23005117)
I was talking about California. CA has no such limitation right now.

https://www.coveredca.com/individuals-and-families/getting-c...

  I don't see any evidence you can start using the insurance without paying for it first,
Because there's no limitation on pre existing conditions, it's effectively the same. You can sign up the day you get sick and have a free ride until then. That's why the CBO scoring was all bullshit.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by justin66 on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:22AM (#23006280)
> Because there's no limitation on pre existing conditions, it's effectively the same. You can sign up the day you get sick and have a free ride until then.

How does that work if you've suffered a catastrophic injury and you're not well enough to sign up until after you've been treated in the hospital for several days?

It's similar, but it doesn't sound like the COBRA thing, where you have the option to retroactively extend your employer's coverage, or not, for a couple of months and you can still visit the hospital the same as you always did (or not) because of the payment and notification grace period. If it turns out you didn't need the insurance, you don't need to pay for it.

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by mceachen on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:42PM (#23001573)
At least in CA, if you opt out of COBRA, you can't opt back in later.
Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by brianwawok on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:50PM (#23001643)
Hum. In IL and IN you have either 45 or 60 days to accept or decline coverage (don’t quote me on exact number, do the research). It made the optimal short term insurance policy to be:

Don’t fill out cobra paperwork to day 59

If not sick or total bills less than 2 months cobra payments, decline cobra.

If sick and total bills > 2 months cobra payments, decide to accept coverage.

Used this for like 5 job hops. Never had to opt in, but it seemed fine. Confirmed with HR several times that it would work as I said.

After 2 months it starts to get gross. Likely want to get an emergency only plan.

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by r00fus on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:11PM (#23002614)
I think your heuristics change if you happen to have an ongoing condition or family needing coverage (who may also happen to have costly out-of-coverage costs).

This is the kind of mental gymnastics that would be completely avoided if we had even the most basic of universal coverage.

Re:The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is bein... by omgwtfbyobbq on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:36PM (#23002377)
It's the same in CA in my experience. I guess people don't think about it b/c we're used to pre-paying for insurance and with COBRA there's a decent period of time to make a decision and you also pay for insurance the following month instead of paying for it prior to/during the month.