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Re:Contact apps won't end lockdown. But they might kill off ... by DennisP on Saturday April 25, 2020 @09:41PM (#22983486)
> Given the possibility that...individuals with Covid-19 might be subjected to stigma, harassment or dismissal, they might be understandably reluctant to broadcast the fact.

Then it's good that in the Apple/Google proposal, that information isn't broadcast. The bluetooth transmits random numbers. Your phone stores the numbers it has sent and received. Upon positive test, the numbers are published and all the phones compare them to the numbers they've received; people who detect a match have an incentive to get tested, so there's no need for a central authority to know who the contacts were.

I don't see how this adds much to government surveillance capabilities. Certainly not in the U.S. where detailed location histories are available for purchase. (In fact, a case in 2018 put specific constitutional limits on the government's right to purchase that data, after the government used it to track down illegal immigrants.)

Given the vast number of surveillance cameras I saw last time in London, I doubt this would add significantly to their capabilities either.

Re:Contact apps won't end lockdown. But they might kill off ... by AstralStorm on Saturday April 25, 2020 @10:25PM (#22983785)
You're underestimating the value of essentially real time tracking metadata with high precision, which is not commonly available nor sold. (Unless, say, you give it to Google outright for example, which is frighteningly easy to do.)

And vastly overestimating the quality of the surveillance cameras.

Ultimately, the big pushback has to be against normalization of use of special measures that are devised for special circumstances in general cases.

Re:Contact apps won't end lockdown. But they might kill off ... by DennisP on Sunday April 26, 2020 @07:27AM (#22986349)
What real time tracking metadata? In the contact tracing system there's no real time tracking at all.

All the server gets is a set of random numbers from a user, after that user tests positive. And while it might be difficult to keep the server from knowing which user tested positive, it's not even necessary to store that.

Re:Contact apps won't end lockdown. But they might kill off ... by multjoy on Sunday April 26, 2020 @04:18AM (#22985505)
> Given the vast number of surveillance cameras I saw last time in London, I doubt this would add significantly to their capabilities either.

The majority of CCTV is privately owned. The vast majority of CCTV is not proactively monitored. Tracking someone using London CCTV is someone staring at a screen for a number of hours trying to follow them on playback.

I’ve had the joy of recreating someone’s movements in a nightclub from CCTV. A 6 hour night out took me days to reconstruct, and that’s using a small number of cameras in a well defined area.

CCTV as a mass surveillance tool just doesn’t work.

Re:Contact apps won't end lockdown. But they might kill off ... by cmendel on Sunday April 26, 2020 @10:25AM (#22987357)
>Tracking someone using London CCTV is someone staring at a screen for a number of hours trying to follow them on playback.

It is until it isn't. Soon it will be a ML system and it will be possible, then what?

Re:Contact apps won't end lockdown. But they might kill off ... by omnimus on Sunday April 26, 2020 @04:46AM (#22985633)
It would work if it was centrally owned and with camera on every corner.

I agree that privately owned cameras are fine. But we have to be very careful what we allow in future.