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Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by ajsnigrutin on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @04:20AM (#22943358)
I'm from slovenia, a small, former yugoslav country. We don't have special schools for math here, and elementary schools (7-15yo in my time) were the same for all, and you went to the closest school to your home... but our highschool ("gymnasiums" - 15-19) used the grades from elementary school + standardized testing scores to rank students, and somehow best students went to certain schools, 'the middle' got accepted o others, and shitty students went to shitty schools and other, non-general schools.

The biggest difference wasn't separating kids into math classes and language classes, but genrally separating them by "good" and "bad". Having a random mix of students, where some can barely read, and others read two books per week (or some can barely multiply, while others code math problems for fun), is a very hard job for the professor, because in the end, they have to lower their standards, expectations, and the quantity of material until most students scrape by. Having a group of students that are good at "school stuff", means the teachers are having very little problems with the basics and can continue faster and prepare students better for university and life. If we had separation for stem-talented students, and language-talented and *-talented, it would be even better.

So basically... group better students together, and you can do a lot more with them, if you don't have to pull the 'bad' students behind. I am aware that this is bad for 'bad' students, and that it should be fixable somehow (they should have options to move to better schools), but good students thrive without idiots in class.

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by jhrmnn on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @05:24AM (#22943700)
This is one school of education. The other is the Finnish model, with no separation. I am yet to see some comprehensive multinational study that would suggest which is better. (Better for the students, or society as a whole?) It’s probably impossible to do objectively. I also feel there is probably quite a difference between these two systems in the effects on the, say, top 0.2%, 2%, and 20% of the students.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by Viliam1234 on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @04:09PM (#22949651)
Seems to me that the Finnish model is better for an average student (guessing by their PISA test results) and worse for a talented student (guessing by their math olympiad results).

Anecdotally, a Finnish friend told me that if you excel at one subject, you are encouraged by teachers to stop doing it, and instead spend more time learning the other subjects.

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by type0 on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @06:14AM (#22944023)
Finland is an outlier in that regard, not sure if that model can be applicable anywhere else because it's so culturally specific.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by captain_price7 on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @07:58AM (#22944606)
I spent 6 years in one of those highly selective schools, and I have mixed feelings about this.

One problem is that Small-fish-in-big-pond-effect, a good chunk of us realized there that we weren't special anymore, there wasn't the honor and praise for being top- and consequently that drive was lost.

Plus, once some schools become well established and start to attract highly talented kids- kind of kids who can do well by themselves without much external help, the school itself, I mean teachers and administrators, doesn't have to be very good. Their success starts to depend more on their ability to attract talent, and less on actually nurturing and developing them. Past success bring more success- a sort of virtuous cycle.

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by ajsnigrutin on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @09:42AM (#22945425)
I dont know about the second part... but i'm sure glad I didn't jave illiterate trouble-causers in my class (as i did in elementary school (7-15yo)).

One such disrupter can take away easilly 10 minutes of a class hour, and 1/3 of the class not understanding basics, means the teacher has to try again and again to teach them the things they should already know, while the rest of tle class stagnates.

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by azinman2 on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @04:36AM (#22943450)
We had that at my American high school. It’s called honors and AP classes. There are event “magnet“ high schools, or high schools dedicated to top artistic talent. They just aren’t uniformly available.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by Koshkin on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @12:27PM (#22947316)
True - artistic (but not mathematical or scientific). But AP classes are really good at what they are meant to achieve indeed.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by nervousvarun on Friday April 24, 2020 @05:58AM (#22966360)
Not sure what you mean by artistic here?

Available AP classes/tests include STEM...so Physics, Chemistry, Calculus, Biology, etc.