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Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by julianeon on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @10:44PM (#22941522)
I feel like it's worth pointing out here, for Americans who don't know better (no blame implied), that the French have one of the best mathematical pipelines in the world. They have almost as many Nobels (13 vs. 11) despite having 1/5 the population. Guardian article about them here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/may/31/europa-french-...

So please don't think France is a backwater that just doesn't know how to do math - on the contrary, it may be the best country in the world to be born into, if you want to be a mathematician.

For what it's worth, I'm an American who honestly is pretty bad at math, but I try to keep learning, though I'm past an age where it will matter in college or higher education.

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by realbarack on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @11:18PM (#22941736)
A paraphrased anecdote I heard about French math education:

"In America, they start by teaching you how to add two numbers, then once you've mastered that you learn to subtract, then once you've got that down you learn to multiply and divide and so forth. In France they tell you: this is an arithmetic object. The operations on it are add, subtract, multiply, and divide. It's simple!

It's a good way of cranking out a bunch of Fields medalists, while everyone else has no idea what's going on."

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by nestorD on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @03:49AM (#22943215)
Note that this was true at a time (some of my math teachers learned group theory in middle school) but that nowadays math education is much less abstract until the end of highschool.

At this point there is a specialized track (preparatory classes) to get into the most prestigious engeneering and buisness schools that will have you cram mathematics / physics / computeur science / english / a mix of litterature of philosophy in two or three years.

The student then get into the various school according to their grades on a serie of national exams.

This track is very competitive (and as such often decried) but I believe that it is a very efficient way to get the top talents to the top institutions with a maximum of learning on the way (also note that this education is free and that the very best school will even pay you).

Note that a student can also choose to get to college and ignore this track.

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by alexanderchr on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @05:08AM (#22943592)
Tangent joke:

> A British mathematician was giving a talk in Grothendieck's seminar in Paris. He started "Let X be a variety...". This caused some talking among the students sitting in the back, who were asking each other "What's a variety?". J.-P. Serre, sitting in the front row, turns around a bit annoyed and says "Integral scheme of finite type over a field".

found it on /r/math: https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/7qjxbe/whats_your_fav...

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by mianos on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @12:20AM (#22942126)
'Fields' or 'fields' or both, I laughed out loud. Mathematicians might find this quite funny.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by Koshkin on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @12:48PM (#22947544)
To the question "what is 2 + 3" a French primary school pupil replied: "3 + 2, since addition is commutative". He did not know what the sum was equal to and could not even understand what he was asked about!

https://www.uni-muenster.de/Physik.TP/~munsteg/arnold.html

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by agumonkey on Thursday April 23, 2020 @08:19AM (#22955132)
To be honest, what he's criticizing is also what is lacking in post-primary school math education. The mechanical reduction (3 + 2 -> 5) leads to a road block when you start thinking into solving equations.. because there's no single path of reduction. You need to see the formulas as material you can transform in your mind.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by vondur on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @11:31PM (#22941818)
I don't believe anyone here thinks France is an Academic backwater. France has had some of the most brilliant scientist/mathematicians since the 1600's.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by lainga on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @10:47PM (#22941540)
Do you mean the Fields Medal?
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by julianeon on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @10:50PM (#22941556)
Ha! Yes I do. In fact you can tell my amateur-ness from this, that this misstatement didn't immediately jump out as wrong (though I do know there is no Nobel for math, when I stop and think about it).

I should have said the Fields Medal, as indicated in the article.

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by runeks on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:54AM (#22942948)
> I feel like it's worth pointing out here, for Americans who don't know better (no blame implied), that the French have one of the best mathematical pipelines in the world. They have almost as many Nobels (13 vs. 11) despite having 1/5 the population.

I’d much rather measure an educational system by how much it teaches the average person, than by how many Nobel prize winners it produces.

Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by tonyedgecombe on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @03:34AM (#22943144)
The two might not be exclusive. Perhaps one of the side effects of the masses having a good grip on trigonometry is producing more Nobel laureates.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by iorrus on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @07:14AM (#22944344)
I studied Engineering for a period in France at the time (undergraduate) I was very impressed at the level of rigour and abilities of my French peers. However this does not seem to link well with actual abilities as a practising Engineer. For instance French engineers are not particularily coveted.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by tragiclos on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @11:28PM (#22941808)
There is no such thing as a Nobel prize for math.
Re:Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison t... by touktouk on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:38PM (#22948758)
The strongest plausible interpretation of what the previous comment said is that it refers to the Fields medal, which has been described as the mathematician's Nobel Prize [0]. Assume good faith.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields_Medal, second paragraph