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Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by axguscbklp on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:53PM (#22940165)
Yeah, from what I can tell the U.S. currently has fewer COVID-19 deaths per capita than Belgium, Spain, Italy, France, the U.K., the Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, or Ireland. Of course, part of the reason for this might be the timing of when COVID-19 hit the U.S. as opposed to when it hit those countries. But it certainly doesn't seem to me that the U.S. has been doing wildly worse, at least when it comes to the death toll, than most wealthy Western European countries. Germany is a big outlier, with about half the deaths per capita so far when compared both to the U.S. and to most of its wealthy Western European neighbors.

It could also be argued that, even if the U.S. ends up having a COVID-19 deaths per capita rate that is similar to that of Western Europe, people in the U.S. will have a harder time dealing with the economic aftermath of the crisis due to weaker social safety nets. Probably a lot will depend on how efficient the U.S. emergency stimulus measures end up being.

The author of the article tries to connect the COVID-19 crisis to the U.S.'s political divisions and to the failures of the Trump administration, but I am not sure that he succeeds. There are many nations that have less political bickering than the U.S. does and have more technically competent and less divisive people in charge of their governments than the U.S. does, but have nonetheless been suffering from the crisis as much as the U.S. has been suffering.

There are plenty of good reasons to criticize U.S. political partisanship and to criticize the Trump administration, but this article strikes me more as intellectually shallow anti-Trump complaining or propaganda, not as a serious and unbiased analysis of the political state of the U.S. and how that state relates to the COVID-19 crisis.

Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by JAlexoid on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @10:51PM (#22941559)
US didn't have a reliable test for SARS-Cov-2 virus till just over a month ago.

Deaths per capita is "fun" considering that you're comparing Netherlands to all of US. US actually has a lot of ICU beds... And yet New York State has a higher death rate per capita than Netherlands. (similar populations, btw)

US has been doing as bad as Italy in certain areas - notably the poorer areas of NYC have been hit harder, than the wealthier. (Which is literally the opposite of Italy, where the wealthier north got hit hard)

Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by jkoudys on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @07:49AM (#22944558)
The US also got hit pretty late, yet is taking it the worst. The extra time could've been used to prepare - everyone in this comments section wants to compare to Europe, but there's a much better reference point sitting on America's border. Canada took it seriously from the start, and despite having a greater diaspora that might transmit the "Chinese virus" into densely populated areas, has had a flatter curve, a less catastrophic economic impact on individuals, and most importantly a far lower morbidity.

The big problem with comparing directly to europe, is not only the timing but the demographics. Italy was hard hit because they have a lot of old people. Canada already has a lifespan 4 years longer than America's, which if you think about it is probably better proof that America is failing than most of the article.

Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by TheSpiceIsLife on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @10:53PM (#22941567)
You could drill down further.

In the wealthier north of Italy, was it the wealthier areas or the poorer areas that got hit hardest?

Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by frollo on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:23AM (#22942822)
Northern Italian here, from the fringes of the first red zone. Basically the two areas which where hit hardest, Bergamo and Codogno, where hit along political lines.

Codogno has an "hospital" which is basically a glorified asylum (and is often considered one of the worst asylum in Italy). It was not equipped to deal with anything serious and basically it was considered and hospital only in order to avoid spending money on other infrastructures.

Bergamo, on the other hand, is one of the economical centers of the country and the regional government delayed action under the pressure of the industrial establishment, until national government stepped in.

Many citizens of Lombardy knew that our healthcare system (which is regional competence) was a disaster waiting to happen and still suspect our regional government is lying in order to cover their failures.

Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by dwd on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @01:36AM (#22942581)
Probably the closest comparison would be the US to the whole European Union. Similar sized population, a broad a mix of left/right leaning states, some more affluent than others, that are largely operating independently.

About two weeks ago the EU was around 800k cases and 57k deaths, the US is there now and at 40k deaths - so maybe doing better, but possibly could have been a lot better if the Fed Gov had taken charge early.

But we don't know precisely how many non-hospital deaths have occurred in either case. They estimated the UK was out by 40%, and Wuhan added 50% to their total recently.

Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by rumanator on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @08:10PM (#22940672)
> The author of the article tries to connect the COVID-19 crisis to the U.S.'s political divisions and to the failures of the Trump administration, but I am not sure that he succeeds.

Did he or anyone has to try for that connection to be extremely clear?

I mean, right now the Trump administration is desperately trying to manipulate the public to force the Overtime Window over the "let's stop the quarantine" spot. How is that not a glaring failure?

And let's not forget how the Trump administration persecuted a carrier captain for protecting the crew after finding out the epidemic was spreading within the ship.

Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by Gibbon1 on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @10:12PM (#22941330)
I recently stumbled on an article from April 13 that claimed all the hubub about the virus in the media was to make the president look bad. Seriously good leadership in times like these isn't rocket science. And they can't manage that.
Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by axguscbklp on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @10:31PM (#22941443)
Well, my point isn't to let Trump and his gang off the hook. I'm no fan of them. But this article strikes me as a hit piece, not an objective bit of editorializing.

>And let's not forget how the Trump administration persecuted a carrier captain for protecting the crew after finding out the epidemic was spreading within the ship.

Those Navy personnel volunteered to potentially kill foreigners on government orders and to give up some of their civil rights at least for the duration of their service. It's one thing if some of them wanted to endanger military security for the sake of letting the wider public know about abuses - which is what Snowden did, and is something that I support. It's another thing if people who volunteered to potentially kill people on government orders want to endanger military security just to try to save their own lives.

Re:We Are Living in a Failing State by rumanator on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:42AM (#22942904)
> Those Navy personnel volunteered to potentially kill

Completely irrelevant and ridiculous point.

The job of a captain is to a)protect the crew and keep them healthy, and b) keep the boat operational. You cannot have none of those if you have an epidemic raging through your ranks.