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Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by interestica on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @05:17PM (#22939420)
Always thought the name choice was a bit weird. With a name like Duo, are they forever restricted to two-party calls? (Ha) It seems like the other video chat services (eg WhatsApp, Instagram) are incorporating multi user support.

The "knock" feature is kinda novel and weird (in a good way). When you call someone, they can see your video feed before they answer the call.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by crazygringo on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:08PM (#22939874)
I think, much like FaceTime, it's designed primarily (both UX and architecture) around the two-party call use case, but can support several more as needed (12 total for Duo, 32 for Facetime).

Whereas solutions like Meet and Zoom are designed primarily (both UX and architecture) around multi-party, supporting 100's (250 for Meet, 500 for Zoom).

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by bscphil on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:31PM (#22940036)
Note that intuitively, it seems like Meet and Zoom have the better model - why limit the number of participants when you don't have to? And in fact a lot of consumers seem to feel this way about it; many people I know use Zoom for everything, from large meetings to chatting with a small number of family members or confidants.

But under the hood, limiting the number of users allows some important technical advantages. Duo claims (in its FAQ) to be end-to-end encrypted. I believe Whatapp claims the same. And it wouldn't surprise me, knowing Apple, if their video chats on Facetime did too. This is possible only with a reasonable limit on the number of participants because of the need to negotiate a bandwidth for each stream that works for all viewers, and each stream needs to be independent, not multiplexed into a single live view.

The proper use of large-scale meeting products is in corporate or paid environments where you have some kind of guarantee that your chats aren't being recorded or sold. (At least unless a three letter agency is involved.) Tools that guarantee end-to-end encryption should be used in small group chats.

Your point about UX is a strong one too. There are a affordances that work better for smaller chats, others for larger ones, and it's helpful to be able to specialize.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by tatersolid on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @09:47PM (#22941219)
> The proper use of large-scale meeting products is in corporate or paid environments where you have some kind of guarantee that your chats aren't being recorded or sold.

In banking/financial services, we want guarantees that all chats are being recorded. In lots of other regulated and government fields too.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by bscphil on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @03:15AM (#22943041)
Correct - I meant surreptitiously recorded.
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by crazygringo on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @08:27PM (#22940778)
> why limit the number of participants when you don't have to

Because beyond UX, there are a ton of technical tradeoffs involved.

In a 2-person call you want to avoid a server if possible, because it adds latency -- so that's a good first reason. Zoom and Meet would never dream of not using a server.

The optimal architecture of a "small group call" is totally different from a "large group call".

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by dmitrygr on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @05:53PM (#22939731)
only "a good way" until you(/your grandmother/your kid) get a facefull of unsolicited genitals
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by rurp on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:44PM (#22940121)
Lol, "facefull of unsolicited genitals" is not a phrase I expected to read today.

I agree though, this feature seems like a solution in search of a problem. If I'm answering the call it seems more natural to activate both cameras at the same time, and for calls I'm not going to answer the video feed just seems unnecessarily distracting. I'm sure that I have never wished for a feature like this.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by lrem on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @05:53PM (#22939725)
Duo does support up to 8 people in a call. Naming is hard.
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by alexhutcheson on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @07:48PM (#22940540)
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by Mindwipe on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @08:33AM (#22944839)
Only on mobile. Duo for web does not.
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by reaperducer on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @05:54PM (#22939742)
When you call someone, they can see your video feed before they answer the call.

Seems like the sort of thing that perverts would take advantage of.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by haneefmubarak on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:00PM (#22939802)
If you call me on a consumer service which explicitly delineates that behavior, why would it be unreasonable for me to see your video before I accept?

Presumably you would know who you're video calling anyhow prior to calling them, so there's not really a meaningful privacy violation...

The only case I can think of is you calling me to expose yourself or something - to that, I'd say that a privacy option where you can make it so you have to add someone before they can video call you would suffice.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by pryce on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:14PM (#22939914)
If our threat model in 2020 treats "unsolicited dick pics" as rare, and concludes that an "opt-out" setting is acceptable, we clearly haven't listened to what women have been saying for over a decade.

One of the problems with an opt-out setting is that it can become a viable attack vector whenever the application settings reset: "OMG New phone for my 14th birthday" will look like an invitation to some segment of the population.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by lonelappde on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:34PM (#22940058)
It's explained here:

http://support.google.com/duo/answer/6376115

Google knows about dick pics.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by rurp on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:47PM (#22940140)
I don't see anything in that link that addresses dick pics. Is it just the fact that this "feature" only works with contacts?
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by 55555 on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @09:44PM (#22941198)
Yes, which is sufficient. You can call your contacts on skype and then just show them your dick after they pick up... This is neither a Duo problem nor a common complaint (except for in regards to ChatRoulette, where it's also the USP).
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by yjftsjthsd-h on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:07PM (#22939867)
I don't see how; the person shown is the one who initiated the call. Unless you're suggesting a flasher or something, but that's no different than any other video chat, except without the victim's reaction being visible (so, still better, actually thinking about it).
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by jjnoakes on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:24PM (#22939989)
I'd rather ignore a call by looking at my screen, seeing a name/number I don't recognize, and swiping it away. This sounds like I'd have to look at my screen and see something I potentially do NOT want to see before I can ignore or swipe away the call. No thanks.
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by lonelappde on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @06:36PM (#22940080)
Don't build your worldview around internet rumors.

https://support.google.com/duo/answer/6376115

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by jjnoakes on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @08:25PM (#22940769)
Don't worry, I haven't.

And limiting it to contacts doesn't solve the problem.

Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by 55555 on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @09:46PM (#22941207)
You need to choose your contacts better if you are genuinely concerned by this. They can already call you (and then, presumably, you'll just pick up) and then show you their dick.
Re:Google Duo rolls out realtime AV1 by jjnoakes on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @11:07PM (#22941655)
Forget seeing random nudity, I don't even want to see a video of my husband's or kids' face on my phone unexpectedly.

Why should my phone be displaying something chosen by someone else unless I explicitly opted to engage with them (in this case by answering a video call)?

Plus, even if I did have contacts with a dick pic sense of humor, I'd much rather see a dick from them after I opt in to the call (so that I make sure I'm in an appropriate setting). Getting one randomly is insane.

Imagine if your husband or wife called you for some phone sex (say you are on a long trip) but you happen to be in the elevator with strangers on the way to your room. Brrring! No thanks.