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Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by colinmhayes on Monday April 20, 2020 @03:06PM (#22927197)
I've never been to Cushing Oklahoma. I feel like it should be possible to build a big tank in a week or two. Why isn't available storage space skyrocketing?
Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by bmelton on Monday April 20, 2020 @03:42PM (#22927609)
I honestly don't even know if I can fathom how you could get permitted to build such a tank in a couple of weeks, but the answer to why that isn't happening _right now_ is probably because nobody wants to lay out a bunch of capital for a business that might do well contemporaneously but that has no future.

Either things settle back down to normal at some point, in which case you've made some revenue, but probably not recouped your investment. The Cushing facility managed to build 7 million bbl capacity in the early 90s for $60 million. I expect it would cost $80-100 million to build today. Current (inflated) storage costs are 50 cents per barrel. Let's say that rises a LOT and skyrockets to $2 - that's a gross of $14 million per month. Assuming $0 in overhead, you'd need for this contango to last for another 7 months to break even. If we assume something like a 30% margin, then you'd need it to last around two years.

Alternately, things don't return to normal. The market becomes depressed enough that airliners barely fly, and the global world consumption falls. The oil you're storing becomes cheaper to the point that storing it costs more than buying it, and there's nobody to sell it to. Your customers default, and your investment quickly becomes the thing that bankrupts you.

Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by colinmhayes on Monday April 20, 2020 @04:21PM (#22928080)
7 million barrels * $30 a barrel = 210 million just to take the oil. Plus $20 a barrel when you sell it brings you to $350,000,000 in revenue on a 7 million barrel tank. What am I missing, other than not being able to build the tank fast enough?
Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by bmelton on Monday April 20, 2020 @04:49PM (#22928360)
I mean, if you have a spare $300 million lying around, that sounds like a fantastic arbitrage opportunity, and (napkin math time) if you're holding the barrels for more than 10 months, that'd be the way to do it.
Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by evandijk70 on Tuesday April 21, 2020 @08:38AM (#22934376)
You are probably right. And given that June futures went down since yesterday, and the May futures went up, someone is probably doing that right now.
Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by gridlockd on Monday April 20, 2020 @04:08PM (#22927944)
Great answer! Now let's forget about storing to sell later at a profit, at negative 37$, can't you just burn it for a profit?
Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by bmelton on Monday April 20, 2020 @04:45PM (#22928320)
Assuming you can transport a 100+ pound liquid filled drum to a disposal facility that meets federal guidelines for less than that cost, and don't care about the environment, absolutely... but the real trick here is in knowing that the people who are already using oil and have the capacity to store it ... are... so other than just burning it, for a couple hundred million, you could probably supplant your stationary oil consumption with a non-petroleum alternative.

It is ironically the portability of oil-refined products (gasoline, diesel) that makes it so appealing for things that aren't stationary -- planes, cars, etc.

Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by alasdair_ on Monday April 20, 2020 @03:26PM (#22927430)
There are regulations covering storing enormous quantities of oil, including certification of the holding tanks etc.

For example, any container over 55 gallons is subject to EPA regulation and counts towards the total permitted site quantity. Storing more than 1,320 gallons above ground requires the site to have an approved SPCC (Spill Prevention, Control, and Countermeasures) plan.

You can store 42,000 gallons below ground but that requires excavation, permits etc.

Basically: it's difficult to do on short notice.

Further reading: https://www.epa.gov/ust/aboveground-storage-tanks

Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by WJW on Monday April 20, 2020 @03:27PM (#22927440)
There is a little bit more to an oil tank than just steel walls. You need proper foundations, fire prevention systems, disaster plans, probably get hooked up to the pipeline network, etc etc etc. Even if it were quick, the amount of oil being pumped up is massive and you need more than a few tanks to store it all. Finally, tanks are long term infrastructure and it might not be profitable to build out storage too much just in the hope of catching once-in-a-lifetime negative pricing events.
Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by jmccaf on Monday April 20, 2020 @03:45PM (#22927650)
Yeah, it's worth building these tanks safely. There was tank fire last year in Bay Area after a quake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=KMZjfWRXgTs Even if there is different level of risk and safety concern, and air quality regulation in rural Oklahoma vs urban CA bordering a highway, these can catch fire dramatically.

One point made when that fire occurred was that the tanks are placed in earthen basins, so that when tank fails, the flaming fuel just fills the basin, minimizing risk of spreading to neighboring tanks.

Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by kens on Monday April 20, 2020 @07:35PM (#22930129)
Speaking of oil tank fire prevention, videos of foam fire suppression systems are pretty impressive. A gasoline tank fire goes from massive flames billowing into the sky to totally extinguished in 40 seconds. For example: https://youtu.be/OxLPvNdv2t4?t=210
Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by edoceo on Monday April 20, 2020 @03:25PM (#22927415)
It's not possible to build a tank in two weeks, even if you had all the material and equipment at the ready. Plus, capital intensive for what may only be a spike in storage.

These physical goods are much harder to store than bits.

Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by ncallaway on Monday April 20, 2020 @04:41PM (#22928279)
> I feel like it should be possible to build a big tank in a week or two.

When is the physical settlement of the contract? My understanding is that physical settlement of the May futures contract is 21 April (that is, tomorrow).

So you don't have a week or two to build your big tank. It needs to be finished tonight.

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/crude-oil/light-swee...

Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by colinmhayes on Monday April 20, 2020 @04:59PM (#22928485)
Looks like first delivery isn't until may 1 according to that page.
Re:Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract e... by s1artibartfast on Monday April 20, 2020 @05:47PM (#22929006)
Our intuitions are so different I'm not sure if you are joking or not.

My guess is that the build time is 1-2 years with 5 years of permitting up front. I also imagine building capacity is capped with a limited number of trained engineers/welders.