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Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by xyzzyz on Saturday April 18, 2020 @02:13PM (#22909765)
Seattle does not seem to be skimping on maintenance of its infrastructure. City roads do not have potholes and are generally of good quality.

Anywhere I look, municipalities don't spend too much on road maintenance. If the argument is that it's below what's actually necessary to spend to maintain it, and in near future it will come and bite us, clearly some places must already be ahead of the curve and already have significant pains due to falling behind with maintenance and having no budget to pay for it. Where are those places?

> If you go look at older suburbs, especially the less wealthy ones, you see a lot of supporting evidence for the Strong Towns argument. Try traveling around metro Chicago, for example. Or go to a place like Memphis, TN and take a hard look at their maintenance costs versus income.

Can you name one of those places around Chicago so that we can look at its budget? Memphis budgets around 10% of its revenues for infrastructure. Is it significant? Yes. Will it bankrupt the city? No.

Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by rdtwo on Saturday April 18, 2020 @02:50PM (#22910109)
What about the west Seattle bridge, a huge chuck of Seattle just got cut off for many years due to failing infrastructure. That’s probably the first of many infrastructure debts coming due
Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by mjevans on Saturday April 18, 2020 @03:08PM (#22910234)
I live near Seattle. The bridge you're talking about is actually a modern replacement that has failed well before reasonable expectations. I don't recall hearing a root cause, but I don't believe anyone was expecting this or that it's a results of lack of maintenance.
Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by xyzzyz on Saturday April 18, 2020 @03:44PM (#22910509)
From what I understand, the West Seattle bridge is not failing due to lack of maintenance, but rather due to constructions defects. No amount of maintenance could have prevent the current problems.
Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by toomuchtodo on Saturday April 18, 2020 @02:54PM (#22910142)
> That’s probably the first of many infrastructure debts coming due

The problem isn't related to infrastructure alone. US debt is already above $24 trillion [1]. The Federal Reserve just put $6 trillion on its balance sheet [2] that is unlikely to ever be unwound. We've already spent far into the future. It's important to allocate capital intelligently in the near term to ensure disaster is averted when defaults occur en masse decades from now. I'd rather fix all of our existing infrastructure that gets a D+ rating [3] and then default on that debt in the future; we still get to keep what has already been built. The debt is "funny money".

A better title, with more weight towards the financial situation, would've been "We've Built A Civilization We Can't Afford." We have to stop kicking the can, but you need leaders with the fortitude to tackle these painful issues, and an electorate that will support them. Is that likely? I wouldn't bet my own money on that.

[1] https://www.thebalance.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to...

[2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WALCL

[3] https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by jorblumesea on Saturday April 18, 2020 @04:10PM (#22910693)
> just got cut off for many years due to failing infrastructure

But not because Seattle hasn't paid its dues, but due to an engineering fault / design problem. The bridge was expected to last another 40 years and was being regularly inspected (which is how the issue was found). The bridge was built in '84 and inspected multiple times a year.

Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by briffle on Saturday April 18, 2020 @04:23PM (#22910791)
Seattle also has very, very mild weather. go look at the Midwest. Chicago, Minneapolis, Cleveland, etc. places that have hard freezes, frost heaves, and road salt. when I lived in WI, they had crews to fill potholes with 'hot patch' and after a few years, it's more patch' than concrete
Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by bcrosby95 on Saturday April 18, 2020 @05:03PM (#22911076)
Ok. So does that mean suburbs with mild weather are fine, but those without are screwed? Are suburbs sustainable in California but not Cleveland? This doesn't appear to be the message of Strongtowns.
Re:We've Built Cities We Can't Afford by lotsofpulp on Saturday April 18, 2020 @06:10PM (#22911532)
All else being equal, I would bet on people migrating from places with less desirable weather to more desirable weather. More importantly, people with disposal income who can afford to migrate will migrate.