News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Decline of Usability by pfranz on Friday April 17, 2020 @08:36PM (#22904326)
If they couldn't make it easier to set I think the clock should have been less prominent. It's necessary if you're doing a scheduled recording.

It's too bad time sync over power lines didn't catch on widely (or broadcast over the radio). It would still be saving everyone from changing their digital clocks during DST.

Re:The Decline of Usability by thewebcount on Saturday April 18, 2020 @11:07AM (#22908232)
They tried compromises like VCR Plus+[0]. It was basically a 6 digit code that would be printed next to the show name in places like TV Guide. You would enter the code into your VCR instead of a time, and it would figure out how to record it. I think it still required a working clock, though.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_recorder_scheduling_code

Re:The Decline of Usability by Symbiote on Saturday April 18, 2020 @05:53AM (#22906560)
Do you not have a radio clock?

They're common in Europe, on a midrange bedside clock for example, and typical office/school clocks.

I remember we were foiled by one at school, when someone set the clock 15 minutes forward when the teacher wasn't looking. The hands could only move forward, so a few minutes later they started spinning 11½ hours further forward to set the correct time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock

Re:The Decline of Usability by pfranz on Saturday April 18, 2020 @06:49PM (#22911767)
Interesting. I think I've seen those things, but I've never bought one. I was expecting this tech would be built into microwaves, ovens, and cars by now.
Re:The Decline of Usability by Animats on Sunday April 19, 2020 @03:37AM (#22914247)
Time over analog TV signals was supported in EIA-608, the standard for sending closed captions and other data in one line of the vertical retrace interval. PBS stations used to send it. Few things used that data.

In the 1990s I encountered a hotel TV with that feature. It had a built-in clock with hands (not on screen), which was also the alarm clock for the room. No one had set it up, and I spent about ten minutes with the remote getting it to find a station with time info and set the clock. Then the "alarm set" function on the remote would work and I could set my wake-up time.

Re:The Decline of Usability by kristopolous on Friday April 17, 2020 @09:46PM (#22904651)
Time codes inside of analog terrestrial NTSC sounds really easy and obvious.

Given that nobody did it, it would appear that even though legally people like Mr. Rogers were making the case for time-shift programming, the industry must have assumed it was a minor use case.

Re:The Decline of Usability by pfranz on Saturday April 18, 2020 @02:25AM (#22905748)
The main reason I mentioned it is that I know I've seen various implementations--they're just not widely adopted. I guess nobody has the business interest to make it all work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Data_Services (NTSC) looks like a 2008 standard and most PBS stations provide "autoclock" time data

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System (FM radio) I figured this had an implementation considering text has been around for years. Amazingly, I don't think I've ever seen a car stereo use it to set the time!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadband_over_power_lines I know this has been around but has had a lot of hurdles. I figured the current time might be a simpler thing.

The only reliably time-setting tech I've seen integrated is GPS--I'm not 100% sure how time zones work with it, but it does know your location.

Re:The Decline of Usability by Jtsummers on Friday April 17, 2020 @09:57PM (#22904705)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Data_Services

Autoclock setting was done for VCRs. It just happened much later than the case in question.

Re:The Decline of Usability by a1369209993 on Saturday April 18, 2020 @12:42AM (#22905373)
> the industry must have assumed it was a minor use case.

You mean the same industry that was trying to make time-shifting (and VCRs in general) illegal?

Re:The Decline of Usability by XorNot on Friday April 17, 2020 @09:26PM (#22904564)
The problem was everyone did it once, and then lost power at some point and it went into "minor task not ever important enough to be worth taking the time.

If they'd included a backup battery to retain the clock, I suspect it'd been less of a thing.

Re:The Decline of Usability by Talanes on Friday April 17, 2020 @10:05PM (#22904761)
In the days before power strips were ubiquitous, my VCR got unplugged whenever I played the Sega. There was no way anyone was setting the clock daily.
Re:The Decline of Usability by pfranz on Friday April 17, 2020 @11:06PM (#22905024)
I still think that's part of the bad UI =) That setup was bad unless you included a battery or time was likely to set itself.
Re:The Decline of Usability by lmm on Friday April 17, 2020 @10:53PM (#22904960)
> If they couldn't make it easier to set I think the clock should have been less prominent. It's necessary if you're doing a scheduled recording.

On the contrary, the clock needs to be super obvious precisely because it's a pain to set. Otherwise you wouldn't notice until your recordings were messed up.

Re:The Decline of Usability by pfranz on Friday April 17, 2020 @11:05PM (#22905015)
I think context is key. It's only necessary if you have a scheduled recording. So it should only be obvious if you're setting up a scheduled recording or have one queued up. In those cases it should force your or alert you in an obvious manner that the time is not set.