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Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by quotemstr on Monday April 13, 2020 @11:00PM (#22862363)
> High prices will redirect scarce resources to those who have the means and desire to pay for them.

That's true. Don't you think it's also true that those who need a good more have a greater desire to pay for that good? I understand that not everyone has the same ability to pay, but we can't crucify the market on the cross of equity. History shows that when you try to allocate goods based on feelings (some random official's idea of "need") and not prices (which reflect true preferences), you create shortages, black markets, and misery. Command economies just don't work.

There are ways of addressing monetary inequality (e.g., a stipend) in an emergency that don't break the fundamental resource allocation function of the market.

Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by numbsafari on Monday April 13, 2020 @11:06PM (#22862397)
It is both immoral and incorrect to measure need based on who has the most liquidity.
Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by arcticbull on Monday April 13, 2020 @11:08PM (#22862415)
Or as we call it 'the US healthcare system'
Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by someguydave on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @09:54AM (#22865954)
I’m assuming this is sarcasm. Can you propose an alternative method of measuring need?
Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by numbsafari on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @12:58PM (#22868352)
It's not sarcasm at all.

Does one person with a million dollars in excess liquidity to spend on water represent a greater "need" than one million people with no liquidity to spare?

Would it be moral for that person to buy more than they need, solely to inflate prices? Would the resulting spot price in the market be in any way a meaningful gauge of the actual need?

Market prices are only one gauge, and they are pretty faulty, easily manipulated one at that.

Next up, you'll probably tell me that story points are a solid basis for predicting delivery times and making decisions about resource allocation.

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Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by someguydave on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @02:37PM (#22869740)
Please propose a system of distributing goods that is more "moral" or "fair" than the "highest bidder wins".
Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by viklove on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @03:18PM (#22870263)
Provide a UBI so half the population isn't locked out of bidding entirely. The problem with capitalism is that 1% of the population ends up mega-wealthy, and 50% of the population ends up dirt poor, literally unable to afford food. When that happens, the 1% shouldn't get to decide who gets to eat and who gets to starve (by choosing which ones to employ). There should be some form of basic income to ensure everyone has access to some goods, and they can decide which ones to pay more for, and which ones to forego.

In the current situation, if a business owner decides to drop you on the ground, you're literally gonna starve to death in the next month.

Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by quotemstr on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @06:42PM (#22872380)
> In the current situation, if a business owner decides to drop you on the ground, you're literally gonna starve to death in the next month.

That's not true at all. We have an extensive network of assistance programs. Of course these programs can be better in numerous ways. Nevertheless, nobody is starving in the street in the US.

Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by fatbird on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @10:29AM (#22866391)
The field of moral philosophy has extensive literature on exactly this subject. The NYTimes has an 'ask an ethicist' column. Every hospital has an ethics board with prepared guidelines on patient triage in times of crisis.

That the accepted answer to this question has become "who has the most money?" is a victory for... well, the people with the most money, so I guess we can call this a sterling example of the effects of income inequality. The vast majority not only don't have the majority of the money; they don't even have the moral standing of "legitimate" need.

Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by someguydave on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @01:04PM (#22868440)
The only alternative to “highest bidder wins” is “third party decides”. If people need charity, seeking that charity should be a private matter, not one enforced out the barrel of a gun by uninformed third parties.
Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by fatbird on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @04:36PM (#22871122)
Except the whole point of human governance is to delegate that enforcement to a third party that is a just and neutral arbiter. Unless you want to revert to a state of nature and anarchy without laws or money, you're going to have that third party, and if you have it, then you have other options than "highest bidder", which is itself a value choice enforced on other, non-consenting citizens at the the point of a gun.
Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by quotemstr on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @06:40PM (#22872368)
Too much delegation to a third party is called a command economy and history is full of examples of that approach not working, examples going all the way back to the palace economies of the ancient Minoans. The problem is that no third party has enough information or the right incentives to decide fully who should produce what when --- the problem is called "the calculation problem" and has a huge literature. Decentralizing resource allocation decisions using pricing is the only approach that's been shown to work.
Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by fatbird on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @06:43PM (#22872383)
There's a whole lot of daylight between unregulated capitalism and command economies.
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Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by hannasanarion on Monday April 13, 2020 @11:35PM (#22862535)
The opinion that charging people out the nose for basic necessities is a bad way to allocate resources isn't the same as being "opposed to money"
Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by numbsafari on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @06:20AM (#22864315)
100% Correct.

Money is still really important, but it’s dishonest and counterfactual to argue that mere access to liquidity can determine the clearing price for a market.

We know it doesn’t. That’s why we have the Fed.

Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by saghm on Monday April 13, 2020 @11:31PM (#22862520)
> I understand that not everyone has the same ability to pay, but we can't crucify the market on the cross of equity

It's mildly astonishing to me that someone would attempt to make an argument in favor of not regulating absurd prices by comparing the alternative to gruesome public execution. Even ignoring the hyperbole, it isn't a very compelling argument; yes, we all agree that destroying the economy is bad, but the whole discussion is about whether enacting these regulations would _actually_ harm the economy more than it helps, so just asserting that it would with an exaggerated metaphor doesn't really add anything useful.

Re:Economists who defend disaster profiteers are wrong by dahart on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @12:20AM (#22862718)
What’s the economic difference between a stipend to consumers and a price cap on suppliers? It sounds like you just suggested regulation as an alternative to regulation...