News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by hoot on Sunday April 12, 2020 @07:42PM (#22851880)
I've noticed this as well. Does China have any stake in HN that would allow them to sway discussions?
Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by dang on Sunday April 12, 2020 @08:47PM (#22852145)
No, and what you're all observing is the most routine of all phenomena on an internet forum when the topic is divisive. People make diametrically opposite interpretations of the exact same threads based on their pre-existing positions.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by nikofeyn on Sunday April 12, 2020 @07:51PM (#22851921)
i don't know regarding investments. but just to be clear, the trend i have noticed is a clear anti-chinese sentiment on hacker news. it comes up a lot.

i think it's simply because a lot of americans are on hacker news, and there is a gross level of anti-chinese sentiment in the united states in general, probably more-so from educated people.

Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by dang on Sunday April 12, 2020 @08:49PM (#22852159)
Last I looked, about half of the HN community is in the US. Since that includes many expats, presumably less than half of HN users are American. An overwhelming majority are from Western countries though.
Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by surge on Sunday April 12, 2020 @08:51PM (#22852166)
It's anti-CCP sentiment, no one here is hating on HK, or Taiwan, or the ethnically Chinese diaspora, or even the average people in China. The HK protests were just last year and are still going. The 996 movement got a lot of notice and support here. Multiple articles have been posted here about pollution and the Uyghur re-education camps. Anyone well informed and educated are hyper aware of whats been going on in China from the environmental pollution, to Internet censorship, to civil liberties and human rights violations and they treatment of ethnic and religious minorities. You can't be principled and oppose these things in your own country, rail against an administration that does these things, and then give another country a free pass.

They're currently kicking black people out in the streets out of their homes and giving them no where to go because of a ban on foreigners, even though those foreigners never left the country during the pandemic and are no more risk at spreading the disease than anyone else. It's racism, pure and simple.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200411-if-you-re-black-you-can...

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079497/us-w...

I mean, many of the things we're seeing in China currently are the kind of things that were happening in Germany in the 30's that were warning signs.

Just calling out things that are well documented in the news is enough to get down voted mysteriously, maybe the wǔmáo's have become aware of this community.

Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by dang on Monday April 13, 2020 @04:13PM (#22859533)
Please don't use HN for nationalistic flamewar. Or ideological flamewar.

Also in the site guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html): please don't post insinuations about astroturfing to HN. The data is clear that this is almost always in the eye of the beholder, i.e. people imagine it as an explanation for things they dislike, and they're far more likely to notice those than other things. For a great deal of past explanation, see these links:

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by surge on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @10:25PM (#22873824)
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/14/828565428/bloomberg-news-kill...

I didn't realize such selectively enforced standards were a thing? Should I report any post that criticizes government actions for nationalism?

So is criticizing a any government's actions in an comment section about an article criticizing the same government is nationalism? I didn't realize being in support of common human rights was a controversial ideology. I apologize for my actions and welcome the new mod community standards.

I hope this statement will please current and potential YCombinator investors.

Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by dang on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @03:14PM (#22881823)
Everyone who feels passionately on a topic accuses us of selectively enforcing standards against them. That's the bias I linked to upthread. If you look at those examples, the pattern is quite plain. For example, if you held the opposite view you'd be accusing me of anti-China racism (people have done so) rather than pro-Communist shillage or whatever.

Users who post thoughtful, substantive comments on either side of this issue don't run into problems with moderation. The point is that this is a site for curious conversation, not ideological or political battle. We can't have both, for the same reason you can't have a tank battle in a flower garden.

I have zero idea what will please Y Combinator's investors. From my point of view, the only thing that matters is keeping Hacker News interesting, because that's what keeps the community thriving, and that's what's most in YC's interests. I realize that people have reason to be skeptical about such claims, but being able to run HN that way is why I'm willing to do this job. Most other places on the internet, this wouldn't be possible, because the site would need to make money directly (e.g. by selling ads) or to push growth at all costs, either of which would kill HN as we know it.

HN is in a sweet spot that way, compared to how other sites of its kind need to operate. The reason is mostly a historical accident of how HN and YC grew up together, plus the fact that YC's business benefits more from HN being the way it is than it would from a different sort of community. The aren't many businesses in whose interest it would be to fund a site like this.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re:China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted page... by surge on Thursday April 16, 2020 @11:02PM (#22895834)
I had a problem with recent actions by their government, it was directly relevant to the discussion on the article.

Someone conflated that with race, which is holding an ethno-nationalist view of China, where as I differentiate between the government and the people. I've actually been to China, as such I have a personal investment in the place, and met a few of the minority groups and are aware its not one homogeneous culture, so to think all Chinese are the same or even the same race to me is ignorance. I called that out.

When I linked to several articles pointing out the hypocrisy of the CCP position, which was being echoed by who I was replying to, that all criticism is due to racism which is a propaganda position (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/29/chinas-latest-tactic-call-am...) and no sensible person would use that as a defense. So its not a thoughtful, or substantive comment to say all criticism is anti-Chinese or bigoted. But you're doing this one sided enforcement of rules?

I follow the stuff in China close to the ground, I'm hyper aware of the tactics used to counter criticism. I got turned on to the people to get on the ground reporting right here on Hacker News. To see moderators allowing shallow "any criticism of China is racism" but harp on me for pointing out obvious human rights violations, well it does call in to question the bias here.

So I ask you, why call out my statement, and not the person making blanket statements that people are anti-Chinese (as in race) when calling levying criticism. I fail to see that as thoughtful or substantive.