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Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by andreilys on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:19AM (#22823369)
“ I intuit that if you are insanely dedicated enough the universe has a weird appreciation for that kind of thing, and eventually throws you a bone. I know it's wrong and irrational but everytime I've tried that it's worked”

Also known as survivorship bias.

Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by scottLobster on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:33AM (#22823527)
Not necessarily. A prerequisite for winning any game is showing up. Those who show up most often are therefore more likely to win.

Someone who practices a skill for 20 hours a week for a year will have had 1040 hours of practice vs 258 hours of practice for someone who practices 5 hours a week, and that linear increase in time will likely produce an exponential increase in skill as knowledge builds on itself. Assuming there's a market for the skill, the odds of success in that market will also go up exponentially. And if demand shrinks (ie economic recession) that filters out the 5-hours-a-week people.

Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by jrimbault on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:43PM (#22824410)
Assuming we have defined "success" and the person A will multiply their chance of success by 2 after each try.

That leaves almost zero chances of success.

Success, however we choose to define it, is in large part a result of luck. Skill, to a much lesser degree.

Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by scottLobster on Thursday April 09, 2020 @01:12PM (#22824784)
Maybe with a uselessly broad definition of "luck", as in "lucky to be born at the right time for software to be a viable career" or "lucky to be alive, the dead can't earn any money at all".

But if you think that successful engineers are only successful because they just magically got hired one day, and if they never learned any science, math, or got an engineering degree and put in zero or near-zero effort they would have had the same odds of been hired, that's just not a logical argument. Same goes for other professions.

We all start with the hand we're dealt by the universe, but it is possible to improve one's odds quite substantially given time and good decisions (that's arguably the definition of a "good decision").

Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by imgabe on Thursday April 09, 2020 @07:05PM (#22828145)
I honestly don't know how people who attribute everything to luck even manage to exist in the world.

Do you just sit at home staring at the wall waiting for luck to happen to you? What is the point of doing anything if all results only come from blind luck?

Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by jrimbault on Friday April 10, 2020 @07:41AM (#22831997)
You engage with luck. Improve your skills and cultivate luck.

Anecdotal : every job I've had came from relations, 1st to 3rd degree.

Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by jjice on Thursday April 09, 2020 @01:44PM (#22825181)
I think of it like `success = (luck * skill)`. Meaning that if you have all the skill in the world, but the absolute worst luck, you can still fail, and vice versa, but with that said, the majority of possibilities for luck can be countered by higher skill.

Is Ken Thompson lucky? Probably was very lucky to have influences to point him towards electrical engineering and computer science, but with his level of skill, it's hard to imagine him not having a huge impact somewhere. Ending up at Bell Labs (let's say that's luck since he could've worked in a variety of environments) is definitely lucky, but he wouldn't have created UNIX if he didn't also have the skill. I think this goes for the majority of figures in computer science (I don't know enough about other fields to say that about them).

Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by sosborn on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:58PM (#22824612)
Luck and skill aren't mutually exclusive. They work together.
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by techopoly on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:38AM (#22823575)
Just because there's possibly some survivorship bias in their viewpoint doesn't mean their statement is automatically false.
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by ksm1717 on Thursday April 09, 2020 @01:17PM (#22824848)
I like to call that the survivorship bias bias. Similar to the sunk cost fallacy fallacy
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by techopoly on Monday April 20, 2020 @03:52PM (#22927754)
Ha, that's a good name for it. We can go so far in trying to compensate for biases and fallacies that we introduce whole new ones!
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by DmitryOlshansky on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:41AM (#22823602)
Or rather the old adege of:

“The luck favors the prepared”

Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by Ididntdothis on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:15PM (#22823968)
People just remember that there are no guarantees. Dedication and hard work help a lot but you may still fail.
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by thatcat on Thursday April 09, 2020 @01:25PM (#22824936)
It's so hard to know when to give up on something you're dedicated to when it has high pay off but a moderately low chance of success.
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by mcamaj on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:47AM (#22823656)
or the ones that never give up
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by Clubber on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:28PM (#22824169)
"The harder you work, the luckier you get."
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by novok on Thursday April 09, 2020 @04:38PM (#22826943)
Survivorship bias is a valid thing to bring up when the odds are low. When the odds are fairly high, it isn't very useful. "A tech job, somewhere" is not a high bar.
Re:I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and mad... by grandridge on Thursday April 09, 2020 @02:22PM (#22825606)
Also knows as being valuable