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Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by wolfgke on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @07:45AM (#22802319)
> Such compiler would require solving halting problem.

Wrong: Because of the finite memory instead of an unbounded tape (among other reasons), computers are strictly less expressive than Turing machines.

Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by h91wka on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @08:46AM (#22802649)
This technically correct comment would be actually useful, if it linked a fully automated prover, that is capable of proving any property of a program that fits in N bytes.

If you remove infinite tape, you go from undecidable to "just" exponentially complex.

Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by wolfgke on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @08:52AM (#22802692)
> If you remove infinite tape, you go from undecidable to "just" exponentially complex.

Which is a huge leap - we got from "impossible" to "possible in principle" and we now can do research how to make it even "sufficiently fast" for problems of practical relevance.

Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by h91wka on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @08:58AM (#22802743)
No. In CIC I can prove that, say, some property is valid for _any_ natural number. Your "memory is bounded" argument is invalid, as formal proofs can go beyond that.
Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by h91wka on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @08:53AM (#22802699)
...Also I think you don't realize that formal inductive proofs can easily reason about programs operating with unbounded memory.
Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by wolfgke on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @09:15AM (#22802887)
With formal inductive proofs, you can reason, but not decide.
Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by tzs on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @08:27AM (#22802535)
Does the proof that the halting problem is not solvable actually make use of the unboundedness of the tape?
Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by naasking on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @09:00AM (#22802755)
Standard proof is a diagonalization, which depends on infinite sequences.

That said, the Halting problem on physical computers is still of extremely high computational complexity, which can be just as high a barrier as incomputability.

Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by wolfgke on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @08:49AM (#22802673)
Of course it does (implicitly!).

Otherwise the number of possible states of the Turing machine T that we want to check whether it halts or not is finite and we just have to "simulate" the program and see whether it terminates or it reaches again a state that it was already in.

Re:The SeL4 Foundation: What and Why by marcosdumay on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:34PM (#22805454)
How would the "if this program halts then run forever, else halt" algorithm work on a real computer? I imagine it would fail with stack overflow.