News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Mediasoup – WebRTC Video Conferencing by manthideaal on Friday April 03, 2020 @06:04AM (#22767724)
To understand the terms: webrtc, stun, turn, mesh, sfu, mcu, ice and trickle ice, there is (1). 15 minutes to understand what is all this about. What about IPv6 stun and turn?, it seems other people asked the same idea I thought: (2) bout all of this, one is the answer is: As IPv6 takes over the complexity of new networks, STUN and ICE will become irrelevant. I think that with the surge in video conferences and rtc, ipv6 with take off.

In my very humble opinion, I would suggest to reserve some address space in IPv6 for rtc, so that a peer is able to adopt a new special ip reserved for rtc. Nothing new under the sun, in 2014 someone comment along this line of thought (2) and (3).

So what are we waiting for?

(1) https://webrtcglossary.com/ (2) https://www.quora.com/Will-the-IPv6-result-in-the-death-of-S...

(3) 2014, AshleysBrain, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7496986 I think the solution is IPv6. Once every device on the Internet is uniquely addressable again, we can do away with these NAT hacks and two endpoints should be able to reliably connect to each other again, no matter where they are. Of course, that's assuming we don't get more short-sighted engineering that breaks things again...

Re:Mediasoup – WebRTC Video Conferencing by supermatt on Friday April 03, 2020 @07:15AM (#22768037)
addressable !== routeable !== reachable.

IPv6 will certainly REDUCE the need for STUN, but there are still (many) cases where you don't want to be "reachable by default", in which case you need a stable reference for negotiating routing and reachability (e.g. STUN).

Re:Mediasoup – WebRTC Video Conferencing by manthideaal on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:53AM (#22768683)
IPv6 could have and address for "reachable by default", I find that very useful, also IPv6 allow many addresses so that is not wasteful.
Re:Mediasoup – WebRTC Video Conferencing by supermatt on Friday April 03, 2020 @12:38PM (#22771086)
Yeah, but if it’s reachable by default then it’s (by definition) open to the world. Otherwise (if you mean routable by default) you will still end up temporarily punching holes in your firewall, which you will need to close afterwards, and possibly recycling your ip so you aren’t still routable on that last used address. sounds like you would personally end up being a STUN server!
[dead]
Re:Mediasoup – WebRTC Video Conferencing by manthideaal on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:51AM (#22768664)
In order to send a datagram to multiple IP the first, and naive idea, one can think of is to change the datagram protocol to allow for multiple destination. Today, 2020, is the right time. I am thinking about platforms that have hundred or thousand of simultaneous receiving ends, so that the branching point occurs near the destination. Again, googling this proposal is not new (1) RFC 1770, category informational.

Edited: It seem that RtcDataChannel can be used with SFU, example LiveSwitch in 2018, but they don't use multiple destination datagrams (3)

More on similar proposal (2).

(1) IPv4 Option for Sender Directed Multi-Destination Delivery. The Selective Directed Broadcast Mode (SDBM) is an integral part of the U.S. Army standard for tactical data communication networks as defined in MIL-STD-188-220().

(2) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238663190_IPv4_Opti...

(3) https://www.frozenmountain.com/developers/blog/archive/indus...

[dead]
Re:Mediasoup – WebRTC Video Conferencing by manthideaal on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:22AM (#22768876)
Each receiver sending feedback does not prevent the server for using datagrams with multiple destinations. I can see that each peer use a different resolution and bitrate but that is another layer, is like sending information at several resolutions and each peer selecting the best one.

Edited: I must learn something about multicast in IPv6, the idea seems interesting.

Re:Mediasoup – WebRTC Video Conferencing by ibc on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:31AM (#22768942)
> is like sending information at several resolutions and each peer selecting the best one.

Well, no. This is not about sending all video layers to all receivers and let them choose which one to render. Not al all.

The purpose of video simulcast/SVC is the opposite: make the SFU decide (based on estimated per receiver bandwidth or whatever) which video layers to deliver to each receiver, so a HQ video of 8 mbps does not break your Internet downlink (you just receive the lowest video layer which is 1 mbps, for example).

And more important: no, the server can not send the same UDP datagram (the same RTP packet) to all receivers. The server needs a different RTP sequence number count and a different SRTP encryption keys with each receiver.

I'm afraid this is not so easy as you say, not at all.

BTW: Do you want to say something about mediasoup? or just about your stuff?

Re:Mediasoup – WebRTC Video Conferencing by manthideaal on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:25AM (#22769419)
Thanks for all the info. I think that mediasoup is a very good SFU. I wish you the best and I hope mediasoup SFU to become a crucial tool for rtc.

Edited: In a recent article (1) it seems that multicast is better than SFU in webrtc. In the PhD. Thesis (2) a hybrid model is used: Hybrid multicast-unicast video streaming over heterogenous cellular networks.

(1)https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8811590 (2) https://summit.sfu.ca/item/16802