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A comment on Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’. Parent comment

Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by missedthecue on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @02:22PM (#22751906)
Things like "fair pay" and "living wage" are political talking points.

In short, what the living wage is really about is not living standards, or economics, but morality. Its advocates refuse to come to terms with the fact that wages are market price–determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of oil, steel, corn, or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away.

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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by lotsofpulp on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @02:30PM (#22752014)
I think the doom to failure part is due to a scarcity of resources (especially an environment to pollute), which inherently causes distribution issues.

If the world had an infinite number of detached single family homes in places with fresh water and secure food supplies and good weather, making things "fair" would be quite easy. We can certainly do better than we currently are, but the underlying reason things aren't fair is that nature doesn't offer fair.

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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by thatcat on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @02:45PM (#22752175)
Lol, the price of corn, or even oil, coal, and steel are constantly adjusted by gov policies. You've proven the opposite of your point - market price is political and can be controlled when it is politically favorable.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by missedthecue on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:12PM (#22753569)
You've missed the point of my comment. I never said that the government can't manipulate markets through price floors, ceilings, or subsidies.

I said the market system is amoral. We can't will it to do what we want. You can't force a job to suddenly create $20/hr of economic value by placing a mandatory $20/hr price on it. Basic mathematics doesn't allow that.

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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by thatcat on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:44PM (#22755792)
The market and it's values are a manifestation of the people participating in the market and therefore the any morality or values a market has would simply be a reflection of the values and morality of those people.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by bluGill on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @04:38PM (#22753272)
There is political intervention, but even that works in context of the market and so can only go so far.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by thatcat on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:08PM (#22753537)
You could just as easily say it's the market that works in the context of politics, the market can only go so far, due to policy limits. I.e you can't build a nuclear reactor without approval so policy can durectly control market competition.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by bluGill on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:01PM (#22755582)
You could, but you would be wrong as the market is universal. You can manipulate it, but ultimately it limits what you can do.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by thatcat on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:35PM (#22755753)
the market is a social construct just like politics, there is nothing universal about it
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by bluGill on Thursday April 02, 2020 @05:13PM (#22763937)
All children discover it though, so it is universal to humans. A few other animals have it as well.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by thatcat on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @02:42PM (#22752140)
Lol, the price of corn, or even oil, coal, and steel are constantly adjusted by gov. You've proven the opposite of your point - market price is political and can be controlled when it is politically favorable.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by jnwatson on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @02:50PM (#22752234)
The government doesn't control the price of corn, oil, coal, or steel except indirectly via government policy.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by burkaman on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:01PM (#22752358)
Subsidies paid directly to farmers are not indirect. The Energy Policy Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005), which sets a mandatory minimum amount of corn that must be made into ethanol, is not indirect.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by viklove on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @04:29PM (#22753203)
Turns out we value corn more than the people who farm corn. What a time to be alive.
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Re:Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawb... by munk-a on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:01PM (#22752367)
For Oil the US has a strategic reserve that they dole out whenever they need to appease the public - you could say this is an indirect effect, but selling it for cheap on the open market to drive the price down is reeeeally close to just directly setting the price.
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