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Re:Omni Group Layoffs by 7777fps on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @06:45AM (#22747383)
What's wrong with the subscription model?

Vendors get recurring money and aren't incentivized to make sweeping changes to have major releases to get more money for the same product; consumers can manage cash flow by only paying while they need it, there is a lower barrier to purchase, and vendors have more predictable income.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by taneq on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:20AM (#22747573)
As a consumer of software there are three MAJOR problems with the subscription model:

1) If it's for a piece of software I use on an ongoing basis the cost often rapidly eclipses what I'd have paid for standalone software, and it never stops rising.

2) There's usually some awkwardly contrived cloud tie-in, purely to enforce subscriptions, which breaks the software if your internet connection or the supplier's servers are down. This adds a completely unnecessary external dependency.

3) You're entirely at the vendor's mercy if they decide to change the software. At the very least, you're subjected to constant small breakages of your workflow, and at worst they change some major feature that you depend on and put you out of business for days or weeks until you find a workaround.

Edit: Also 4) The aforementioned awkward cloud tie-in often brings with it some gnarly privacy issues, with your sensitive files and private data being leeched off to the vendor's servers FoR YoUR ConVeNIeNcE.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by mgkimsal on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:42AM (#22747690)
I've found JetBrains and .. tele.. ? (screenflow) to both be decent compromises. Well... I guess screenflow isn't a rental - I upgraded through version 6 - I may upgrade to 9 now, as there's enough 'new' stuff (and I have a newer laptop) to make it worthwhile. I appreciated it not being a subscription, precisely because nothing changed for me - I kept using the same software for a few years, knowing I was missing out on some bug fixes (but also knowing I could upgrade to get them reasonably cheap - it was a choice on my part).

The JetBrains model is good because I'm able to keep using a version without paying for upgrades (but I have kept up anyway as the annual fee is so cheap for what I get).

The points you've made are why I don't typically get software that is truly 'rental only' or hits your other points. That said, I've not run in to too many in the past few years that are affected by those issues any more. Are there some in particular you're thinking of that have those problems?

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by danieldk on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @08:38AM (#22747953)
Do JetBrains products still work if the company would go out of business or decided to undo the perpetual license? (I haven't upgraded my license since they switched to the subscription model.) [1]

[1] It would probably be difficult contractually, but such things happen. See e.g. TextDrive hosting lifetime accounts.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by jhawk28 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:21AM (#22748227)
Your perpetual license only works on a historical version. It doesn't work with any updates. The incentive is for them to continue building products that make you want to upgrade. The perpetual license key works in a disconnected network so it doesn't matter if JetBrains went out of business. You just need to make sure you have a local copy backed up.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by taneq on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @12:46PM (#22750722)
Honestly that's OK, if it doesn't break my current build arbitrarily then maybe later I'll upgrade.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by sjwright on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:10AM (#22748610)
The Jetbrains model needs a simple, catchy name so that more companies can be inspired to choose it. Perpetual subscription?
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by taneq on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @11:46PM (#22756028)
The "JetBrains model" is how all software used to work. You... buy the software. And then maybe you get free updates until the next major release. If you buy the next major release then that's another "12 month subscription".
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by pseudalopex on Thursday April 02, 2020 @01:55PM (#22761649)
JetBrains calls it a perpetual fallback license.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by mcgrath_sh on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:34AM (#22748971)
Rolling lease to own, maybe?
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by HumblyTossed on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:48AM (#22747718)
All great reasons. I would like to add, also, that I wonder how many subs developers think people in flyover country (not the 500K/year SV country) can actually afford each and every month?
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by blaser-waffle on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @12:00PM (#22750108)
80/20 rule, probably. Most of their revenue is coming from a handful of places, and and increasing the money coming out of other parts of the market might not be worth it.

Easy to support a couple hundred whoppers who pay big money on the coasts -- and who also have the time and money to really learn the tool. Expand that out to 100,000 customers with lower costs and greater support needs and it doesn't make sense.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by taneq on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:27PM (#22755703)
When you're talking mobile apps and microtransactions and we call these people "whales" then this is a bad thing. In a professional setting is it suddenly OK to treat your customers like this?
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by mantap on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:49AM (#22747725)
> If it's for a piece of software I use on an ongoing basis the cost often rapidly eclipses what I'd have paid for standalone software, and it never stops rising

High quality software has always required a recurring payment model. It's not viable to sell standalone versions to a new set of customers each year. In the past this was informal with upgrade versions every year. You could theoretically choose not to upgrade but software developers would have all kinds of tricks to "encourage you" such as not providing forwards compatible file formats.

What the subscription model does is align customers with the realities of software development. Yes the cost of software never stops rising but neither do the maintenance costs.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by taneq on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @12:50PM (#22750779)
No it hasn't. The only thing that makes you think so is the unrelenting churn of modern web development. Back in the day if you bought a particular toolchain you could keep developing with it for as long as you wanted and the only thing that could force you to upgrade is the need for more features. In the past you'd get nice-to-haves at every upgrade but if you didn't opt for it you would be perfectly able to continue developing your current condebase using your current, paid-for tools.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by danieldk on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @08:40AM (#22747967)
but neither do the maintenance costs.

That depends. On macOS the churn is high. But there are probably a lot of Windows applications from the nineties that still run unmodified.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by mantap on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @08:54AM (#22748050)
macOS indeed requires additional effort. But regardless of that customers tend to get annoyed and stop giving you money if you don't ever fix their bug reports.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:55AM (#22748464)
You fix the bugs in paid updates, and users decide whether the bug fixes are worth the cost.

It's a good balance—if you spend extra time on worthwhile changes, the users need to pay for that time. The users can also decide to stick with what they have if they don't think your changes were worthwhile, which may be a perfectly reasonable path.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by pdpi on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:42AM (#22747683)
I think you should look into the subscription model that Jetbrains has for their IDEs. It has none of the issues you described other than, inevitably, the recurring cost.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by ptx on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:52AM (#22747740)
JetBrains products might be unusual in that the IDE is all about integrating lots of constantly changing external tools and therefore needs constant updates, so it's well-suited for a subscription model.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by eskaytwo on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:08AM (#22748134)
And for many people an IDE is something they can spend 5-10 hours a day in. I own a fair chunk of the Omni apps, but even doing the diagrams for my thesis I didn’t spent anywhere near that much time in Omnigraffle. The incremental cost of all of the subscriptions every month, in perpetuity makes the marginal choice to get another one (eg 1Password) tricky.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by mcgrath_sh on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:10AM (#22747523)
The mental overhead of renting every piece of software I own would be exhausting, not to mention consistently expensive. Subscriptions come out of a different part of the my budget than purchases do, and it is an ongoing expense I have to factor is versus coming out of my funds once every few years, if I can afford it at that time. There are several pieces of software I would have gladly bought at 2-3 times their annual subscription rate, but instead simply moved on from. I get it. Software developers need to be paid, but I’m not renting every tool I want to use. I also understand I’m in the minority because I understand why there is a new version every few years and would gladly purchase those. Simply put, the overhead and uncertainty of a subscription model devalues the vast majority of software for me to make me find alternatives.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by eskaytwo on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:09AM (#22748144)
And it’s much easier to expense a one off purchase on tax than adding up all the recurring subscriptions.

But yes, the cognitive load is a big one for me too.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by TeMPOraL on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:22AM (#22748238)
Same for me. I describe it in terms of relationship. Each subscription is another relationship with a third party that I otherwise don't care about, that I don't want to be in any ongoing relationship with. I just want to a) pay for the software, and b) use it to do the things I need done. Just like if I were buying a hammer.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by mcgrath_sh on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:32AM (#22748932)
A power drill is my favorite analogy. If I drilled holes once every 18 months, I’d gladly rent from Home Depot. If I found myself doing a weekend project every month, I want to own a drill. That drill comes with the expectation that it has an 18-24 month warranty (support cycle) and if my power outlet (OS) doesn’t change after that, I expect the current drill (current version) to keep working, essentially, until the hardware dies. However, I do not expect Milwaukee to add a light or whatever new feature to the drill, or change the plug if my outlet changes. After that 18-24 month period, I expect that new features, breakage, etc will mean I buy a new drill.

I know it is an imperfect metaphor, but it helps get my point across that valuing ownership doesn’t make someone cheap. It makes them unwilling to lease software.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:55AM (#22748471)
I don't think you're in the minority.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by danieldk on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @08:54AM (#22748051)
I think subscriptions will be terrible for vendors in the end as well.

First, because they have to compete with the likes of Office 365, which offers an Office Suite, 1TB cloud storage, and 60 Skype minutes (at least the used to) for little over 5 Euro per month. Subscriptions for more basic programs will look overpriced in comparison.

Second, as subscriptions become the new normal, we will see services like Apple Arcade. I think Apple Arcade will eventually eat up a lot of revenue as casual gamers will move from purchasing games to the 'all you can eat' Arcade. If Apple Arcade turns out to be successful, what holds them from launching 'App Arcade' [1]? Vendors that don't get into the App Arcade will lose a lot of revenue, vendors that do get into App Arcade will have a steady source of income, but will also be completely at the mercy of Apple (or Microsoft).

[1] I know there is SetApp, but anything that Apple launches has a lot more visibility. They also have more clout to get high profile applications in such a service.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by jtbayly on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:17AM (#22747554)
There are definitely some benefits to subscriptions, but returning to the GP, it’s sort of like renting your nail gun. And your compressor. And your tool belt. And your screw driver. At some point it makes sense to own it and stop renting. Renting is very expensive.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by Spooky23 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @08:33AM (#22747929)
In the enterprise space, subscription is just higher cost maintenance with the additional risk of losing the functionality to some high stakes bullshit at renewal time or spending lots of time on some rat race to upgrade.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by adambyrtek on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:13AM (#22748170)
Enterprises love subscriptions for the same reasons why they prefer leases over capital expenditure. They look much better on the balance sheet and allow to spread the cost over time.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by Spooky23 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @12:26PM (#22750480)
Oh sure, enterprise CFOs love them. They love money too, and software companies who aren't Microsoft, Oracle, etc should be wary. Your entire company could be rendered irrelevant by a minor modification to a subscription offering that is critical. Why should I absorb a $7 user/month subscription for 100,000 people ($8.4M) forever when I can spend $500k upfront and 20% of that ongoing to hire someone to build a functional solution using O365, GSuite or Oracle whatever?

Look at Microsoft's behavior with O365. Many companies will be fully locked into Microsoft across voice, security and identity verticals based on tweaks to the O365/M365 licensing models. You need Azure AD to meet your email compliance requirements, but that's bundled with Intune, which in turn has a co-bundle with Defender ATP, etc.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by indymike on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:17AM (#22747557)
Nothing, at all. There is a downside: every invoice, every payment is a checkpoint where the customer can cancel.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by pabs3 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:11AM (#22747527)
How do you "subscribe" to open source software?
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by mwcampbell on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:15AM (#22747543)
It's time for us to give up on the dream of having good software for free. That's what this whole thread is about. It's a wake-up call for us all. We have to pay for what we value.
Re:Omni Group Layoffs by chrisseaton on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:02AM (#22748102)
How were you paying for open source software before?

Were you paying for something like a Linux distribution? You can often do that on a subscription as well if you want to.

Re:Omni Group Layoffs by jtbayly on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:19AM (#22747564)
How do you “buy” open source software?