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Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by devin on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:06AM (#22735968)
It's disappointing to see a company that has better tech than its rivals playing these games. I have been singing Zoom's praises, but this really makes me want to look elsewhere. What a bummer.
Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by mulmen on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:27AM (#22736048)
Zoom has always been shady as hell. Between the ridiculous web server on MacOS, web client anti-patterns and other endless nonsense the only explanation for their popularity is good marketing.
Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by netflixandkill on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:31AM (#22737328)
The explanation for their popularity is that it isn't a constant struggle to use zoom for meetings. Their software may have other problems, but people can run it and get into a meeting with minimal effort.

Yesterday by comparison half the people on a Skype meeting had to dial into an audio bridge with their cell phones because their computer audio didn't work for no fucking reason, and screen sharing kept lagging unless restarted every so often.

The good marketing for zoom is that webex is awful.

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by Loughla on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:35AM (#22737885)
>The good marketing for zoom is that webex is awful.

100% this. We switched to zoom as stay home orders came out. And only because it worked 100% every time, with little to no fiddling. The non-tech literate employees at my place are patting themselves on the back for being able to set up and host a zoom meeting. Because it's one button.

And that's why they're used so much. They are the literal definition of it just works. People aren't worried about anything else right now.

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by dexterdog on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:24PM (#22742118)
I would never call them "just works." I had it completely lock up my macbook (no mouse movement or anything until it finally black screened) on joining a conference this afternoon. No program has done that to me in the past year.
Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by AlphaSite on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:44AM (#22736122)
I dont know, their competitors are probably the reason for their popularity. It’s definitely a space with a lack of genuinely UX focused competitors.
Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by mulmen on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:23AM (#22737249)
Sure but that’s kind of like saying Wells Fargo has competitive interest rates. The advertised product isn’t the problem. It’s everything they make you take along with it.
Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by bloopernova on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:33AM (#22737350)
I think it's more incompetence on the part of their engineers.

Engineers code shitty apps to fill requirements. Lie to project/product managers about what is complete, or have a "good enough" attitude. Managers communicate to marketing that Zoom is end to end encrypted.

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by mtthwn on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:47AM (#22736141)
Honest question, what do you find is better about zoom? Compared to webex, skype, slack call…

What do people like about zoom?

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by slgeorge on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:01AM (#22736696)
It works.

1. It's actually cross-platform:

- Still can't use Webex across Linux, Windows and Mac in 2020.

- Same goes for Skype, plus half the users who have Skype don't realise it's Linc and the two are completely different.

2. It's far more bandwidth efficient than things like Slack.

The codecs are much more resilient, this applies (from what I can tell) to all the embedded options that are just using the browser.

3. It's going to be around.

- Google Hangouts has previously been renamed and deprioritised. They also dropped their low-bandwidth codecs and cpu usage went through the roof in my personal experience.

I'm unclear on some of the items against Zoom. But there's a lot of hate and emotion around it in the last 10 days - my sense is that some people have an axe to grind - I'm always cautious of a crowd with pitchforks.

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by SamuelAdams on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:28AM (#22736828)
Also it's simple. If I want to add someone to a meeting, I just punch in their cell phone number. They get a call and the AI voice thing says "Press 1 to enter the meeting.". And they press 1. And boom they are in.

No extra software to download, no jumbling around with meeting codes, no "are you the meeting leader" bs. Straightforward and simple UX.

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by mbesto on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @12:19PM (#22739130)
> It works.

Crazy theory, so just hear me out for a second. Maybe the fact that they do some things that violate security is the reason that "it just works". I'm not saying Zoom shouldn't do better here, I'm just saying that there are probably legitimate product/business reasons.

From Steve Yegge's platform rant:[0]

Like anything else big and important in life, Accessibility has an evil twin who, jilted by the unbalanced affection displayed by their parents in their youth, has grown into an equally powerful Arch-Nemesis (yes, there's more than one nemesis to accessibility) named Security. And boy howdy are the two ever at odds.

But I'll argue that Accessibility is actually more important than Security because dialing Accessibility to zero means you have no product at all, whereas dialing Security to zero can still get you a reasonably successful product such as the Playstation Network.

[0] - https://gist.github.com/chitchcock/1281611

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by devin on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:56AM (#22747155)
None of their dark patterns or shenanigans make it easier to use. They don't make it harder, but they really do nothing for the user experience.
Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by jefftk on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:46AM (#22738000)
I don't think "it's going to be around" is the main reason people are using Zoom instead of Hangouts: regardless of how you interpret Google's confusing messaging here, Hangouts is clearly not going to disappear while lots of people are relying on it in the middle of a pandemic.

Instead I think it's that Zoom is better: easier to join, it can show you more faces at once, more controls for the meeting owner, lower CPU usage, etc.

(Disclosure: I work for Google, speaking only for myself)

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by banads on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:25AM (#22737797)
>Still can't use Webex across Linux, Windows and Mac in 2020.

Have you tried just running webex in a browser? Works fine for me on Chrome in windows or linux

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by mulmen on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:40AM (#22737417)
You should do 30 seconds of research. Zoom has a long history of shady bullshit.

The “pitchforks” are people who pay attention and do not trust Zoom for established reasons. We are now forced to use it because I guess business in 2020 requires the ability to look like you’re on a beach in your sweat pants.

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by DangerousPie on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:33AM (#22736344)
Video/sound quality is much better than any alternative I have tried. You can see video from up to 25 (or even more now?) people at the same time. It's easy for people to set it up and join meetings. Easy to share screens/audio.
Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by extra88 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:43AM (#22736933)
I think seeing up to 25 people in Gallery view is the default but there's a checkbox to enable seeing up to 49 people.

Schools like it because it can handle hundreds of participants in a single meeting and you can pay for extras to handle over a thousand.

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by johannes1234321 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:33AM (#22736347)
It works.

I tried multiple other tools over time, zoom was the first one where all attendees had it working on all systems without problems.

Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by cosmodisk on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:24AM (#22736538)
Second this.I used to use Skype back in the day and even with astronomical Internet at the time it used be painful. Zoom managed to pull it off somehow.
Re:Zoom meetings aren’t end-to-end encrypted, despite marketing by frabcus on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @11:32AM (#22738492)
Gallery view, you can see everyone at once - we have All Hands where you can flick through the whole company (~75 people) seeing 25 at a time.

Hangouts hides people in meetings with more than about 5, so psychologically you don't even realise they are there.