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Re:U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to c... by viraptor on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @06:39AM (#22615202)
> has already been unwittingly uploading

Majority have been doing it unwittingly, true. But you do get services in return. I actually know about the collection, and in case of Google, in my opinion I get compensated in a reasonable way. I'm contributing to wigle and osm as well to counteract the monopoly, but in practice - it's worth it. We could attach some risk to everything and consider what would happen if gov abused it, but we'll all have some threshold of saying "I'm ok with it in exchange for participation in modern society" (it can be re-evaluated later of course)

The alternative is to not accept any of the risks and live in a disconnected commune. Which is ok if that's what you're after, but... that won't apply to most people.

Re:U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to c... by nathan_compton on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @08:29AM (#22615829)
I don't want to call you out personally, but I absolutely hate how servile this attitude is.

Its as if you can't even imagine a world where you get some of these benefits but where your privacy is protected either legally or technically. Both are totally possible, but your lazy attitude about it is part of the problem.

One of these days all this data we've just been casually giving out is going to be used for a pogrom or some other terrible thing and then it will be too late for this facile "the benefits outweigh the costs" bullshit.

Re:U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to c... by bilbo0s on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @10:19AM (#22616916)
>it will be too late for this facile "the benefits outweigh the costs" bullshit.

No it won't, because the horrible, but realistic, take is that the benefits indeed will outweigh the costs. For all the people who are not targets of the pogroms.

Horrible as it sounds, a lot of people don't really care about things that happen to other people. Even if those other people die. Especially when the other people are not like them.

Sometimes I wonder whether apathy is the true root of evil, not really money. I'm no different, I'm guilty of that tendency towards apathy as well. I'm certainly up in arms about privacy, but I really don't get the same way about women's issues. Nor black guys being gunned down by cops in their apartments. I may lament those situations, but I certainly don't donate money or time to those and other causes.

Point is, root of the issue is that no one cares. Everyone has their own concerns. Which is democracy. And that's great.

But inherent in that environment is a kind of built in "divide and conquer" quality that provides political and economic élites a convenient control mechanism.

Re:U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to c... by raxxorrax on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @10:55AM (#22617314)
If blacks or women suffer from state suppression it would be natural to care for privacy too.
Re:U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to c... by viraptor on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @04:46PM (#22621072)
Yes we need a model where this can be done on a large scale with the way to compensate that doesn't involve private data. But realistically we just don't have that model. We can imagine the world where that's the result. The hard part is imagining how did we get there, and that's really not trivial - anyone has a chance to do it and succeed right now and it's just not happening.

Then there's the technical issue of: We can't guarantee no collection right now, without rebuilding internet from scratch. Then we need to solve the spam/credible information problem again without existing identity information.

So again, unless you want to live in a disconnected undocumented commune, you're drawing your own acceptance line somewhere. If you don't have own solutions to propose, calling others lazy is a bit of glass house situation.

Re:U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to c... by raxxorrax on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @10:53AM (#22617283)
The thing is that you can participate in modern society without Google needing to track you. It isn't even hard to imagine.
Re:U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to c... by viraptor on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @04:49PM (#22621091)
Without Google, yes. But I said: this applies to everything. Do you want medical records staying with your doctor? Do you want a driving license? Do you want a passport? Do you want to register the birth of your kids? It's where you draw the line of convenience -vs- privacy.
Re:U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to c... by raxxorrax on Thursday March 19, 2020 @06:04AM (#22626022)
That is not equivalent to the tracking discussed here. I don't share any location data with Google or any service for that matter. I think most do not.