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Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by AnimalMuppet on Monday March 16, 2020 @04:58PM (#22597682)
I'm pretty sure banks aren't going to start folding. The Fed is ahead of the curve this time (or at least not nearly as far behind it as in 2008). They seem to be pretty serious about doing whatever is needed to keep things from falling apart.
Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by lettergram on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:02PM (#22597740)
I said I wouldn't be surprised, not I think they will.

For reference, I work at a bank. The opinion is my own. The problem has to do with a run on the bank.

All banks are currently reporting negative earnings. Most banks rely on credit, and revenue from said credit. If that breaks down (because people can’t pay). They collapse.

I think the fed can bail them out. I also think that requires printing money so inflation will be high.

Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by AnimalMuppet on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:50PM (#22598353)
> I said I wouldn't be surprised, not I think they will.

Fair enough.

> I think the fed can bail them out. I also think that requires printing money so inflation will be high.

If things go that way, I don't think it has to result in inflation. The thing is that, when a bank collapses, some money disappears (because of fractional reserve banking). If the Fed prints exactly the right amount of money to counterbalance that, it doesn't have to be inflationary. (The Fed could mess it up, of course...)

Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by pdonis on Monday March 16, 2020 @06:08PM (#22598569)
> when a bank collapses, some money disappears (because of fractional reserve banking)

The money doesn't disappear when the bank collapses. It disappears if the loans that defaulted and caused the bank to collapse are written off instead of being assumed by some other party. If the borrower's inability to pay is only temporary, the loan probably won't be written off; it will just be restructured, and the money won't disappear.

Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by AnimalMuppet on Monday March 16, 2020 @06:57PM (#22599127)
OK. But those loan defaults are what lettergram feared would cause the banks to collapse. So they're not independent. The bank can collapse from other reasons, and loans can default without the bank collapsing, but in the scenario lettergram was talking about, loan defaults cause the bank failures.

So, you're right, but I think my overall point still stands.

Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by pdonis on Monday March 16, 2020 @08:57PM (#22600269)
> those loan defaults are what lettergram feared would cause the banks to collapse. So they're not independent.

You're missing my point. I'm not arguing that the loan defaults are independent of the bank failures; obviously they're not.

I'm arguing that the loan defaults, and the consequent bank failures, by themselves don't cause money to disappear. For money to disappear, the defaulted loans have to be written off, instead of restructured. If they're only restructured--i.e., the borrower negotiates a new payment plan with the new lender (whoever takes over the bank's assets when the bank fails)--then the money doesn't disappear. And, as I said, since the borrower's inability to pay is only temporary, caused by an external event, I expect most of the loans to be restructured, not written off.

Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by AnimalMuppet on Monday March 16, 2020 @10:23PM (#22600872)
But if they're going to be restructured - if they're solid enough for that to be possible - would the bank fail? If I understand correctly, the bank becomes insolvent when the loans are written off. (Note well: I am not a banker.)
Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by pdonis on Monday March 16, 2020 @10:49PM (#22601089)
> if they're going to be restructured - if they're solid enough for that to be possible - would the bank fail?

That depends on the bank's cash flow position and their reserve assets. It's quite possible that the bank might not be able to sustain, say, a couple of months of loans not being repaid even if the loans are ultimately going to be restructured.

Of course, one obvious way to forestall this would be to extend short-term credit to the bank itself. IIRC this was done during the 2008 crisis. I have not seen talk yet of that being done now, but I would not be surprised if it were.

Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by pdonis on Monday March 16, 2020 @06:03PM (#22598522)
> The problem has to do with a run on the bank.

That's not what you're describing:

> All banks are currently reporting negative earnings. Most banks rely on credit, and revenue from said credit. If that breaks down (because people can’t pay). They collapse.

That isn't a bank run; it's not having a hedge against credit default risk.

A bank run would be all of the depositors trying to withdraw cash at the same time. But there's no reason for them to do that because their deposits are insured; even if the bank fails, their money won't go away.

> I think the fed can bail them out. I also think that requires printing money so inflation will be high.

The Fed is already printing money; they restarted quantitative easing along with the latest rate cut. I agree that this will cause inflation--in fact, if the printed money ends up, in effect, guaranteeing people's insured deposits, it will most likely cause more inflation than the previous rounds of QE did, since that money will likely be spent (whereas in those previous rounds of QE most of the printed money just sat in the banks' accounts at the Fed, since the banks were unwilling to lend it out).

Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by rescripting on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:11PM (#22597872)
Serious question: what tools do they have left to try and shore things up? They've reduced interest rates to 0. They've injected 1.5T of liquidity. Mitt Romney today just announced they're giving $1000 of helicopter money to every American.

If all of this doesn't work, whats left?

Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by jacquesm on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:12PM (#22597886)
Currency devaluation. That only goes so far though. You can't really print your way out of this easily.
Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by anonuser123456 on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:22PM (#22598025)
Quantitative easing.
Re:Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash by lookingforsome on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @01:19AM (#22601956)
Do we know what assets increase with quantitative easing?