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Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by 34679 on Sunday March 15, 2020 @01:27PM (#22584860)
I don't disagree with the article, but the false equivalency at the beginning is pretty annoying.

>It should be obvious that this story doesn't work: Boeing would most certainly be in trouble if they had to pay their workers sufficient to afford a new jetliner.

You could go the other extreme and ask the same question about paperclips, but paperclips are a poor substitute for automobiles. The equivalent of a jetliner in Ford's day would probably be closer to the Titanic than a Model T.

Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by SilasX on Sunday March 15, 2020 @01:54PM (#22585145)
No, that's the point[1]: it's dubious to think that the worker's wages should bear any relationship to the finished product.[2] That's all the author is establishing there.

Yes, paying workers just enough so they can afford a paperclip is obviously a bad idea.

Yes, paying workers just enough so they can afford a 747 is obviously a bad idea.

Yes, it's still a bad idea when an efficient wage would be just enough for them to afford the same product (here, a Model T) you're producing. Even if that is a good idea here, the standard -- pay workers enough to buy the output -- is a bad one, because the output could be anything from a cheap consumer good to a megaproject.

[1] which, full disclosure, I've made myself: http://blog.tyrannyofthemouse.com/2012/01/mr-ford-meet-boein...

[2] even under general mechanisms by which "price tends to cost" and intelligent uses of the labor theory of value, a worker might be contributing a valuable input (engineering design), or a not-so-valuable input (cleaning services for the offices).

Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by 34679 on Monday March 16, 2020 @09:51AM (#22592635)
Boeing never intended to build a product that an average American can afford. Ford set out to do exactly that.
Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by Wowfunhappy on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:57PM (#22587176)
It’s disingenuous for another reason—outside of the extremely rare private jet, airplanes aren’t intended for consumers. Seats on an airplane are.

So the good-faith version of the argument would be: people who work at Boeing should be payed enough to afford going on vacation by airplane.

(I’m not saying I agree with that statement, as it’s an odd benchmark for other reasons. But it isn’t ludicrous.)

Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by gshdg on Sunday March 15, 2020 @02:02PM (#22585237)
But it is in Boeing's interest to pay workers enough to increase demand for jetliners -- that is, enough that they can afford airline tickets with some frequency.
Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by rhino369 on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:05PM (#22586754)
It just doesn't make sense to pay your employees more in hopes that they will spend more and you'll get the revenue back.

Even if you could capture 100% of their extra pay (an absurd assumption, realistically 2% is huge) you are better off just keeping that money yourself since you'll have to provide them with whatever product/service you sell, which costs money.

Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by chromatic on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:37PM (#22587032)
It just doesn't make sense to pay your employees more in hopes that they will spend more and you'll get the revenue back.

Not even if their marginal propensity to consume is high?

Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by philwelch on Sunday March 15, 2020 @02:26PM (#22585464)
Not necessarily! If Boeing decides to pay an employee an extra $50/month, and that employee saves all of that money and spends it on airline tickets, after the money that goes to the airline, the airline workers, the oil companies, and the airports, a small fraction of it returns to Boeing. Whereas if they didn’t pay them that extra $50/month, they would retain 100% of it.
Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by Talanes on Monday March 16, 2020 @03:04AM (#22590651)
And if every business does this, they all retain the $50/month and none of their employees afford anyone's products.
Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by iso1631 on Sunday March 15, 2020 @06:15PM (#22587307)
If you pay an extra $50 a month, it forces all the other companies to pay an extra $50 a month, and you get a fraction of everyone's extra $50. If you get 5% of the average $50 a month extra, but only employ 1% of the workers, you make money
Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by philwelch on Monday March 16, 2020 @02:46PM (#22595997)
If you only employ 1% of the workers and you pay an extra $50/mo, the rest of the market isn’t necessarily going to keep up with you. You’re probably just gonna end up hiring the top 1%. (Which also had a lot to do with Ford’s success, to be fair!)
Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by maest on Sunday March 15, 2020 @02:35PM (#22585540)
Analogous reasoning suggests that, if you have a 401k and thus probably own some shares in, say, Starbucks, then it's in your interest to spend as much as possible at their shops.
Re:The story of Henry Ford's $5 a day wages: not what you th... by mjw1007 on Sunday March 15, 2020 @01:41PM (#22584998)
Right.

I think Worstall is correct that the story only makes sense if the pay decision can be generalised to other companies, otherwise it won't have enough effect on the market.

But there's no good reason to generalise "Ford workers should be able to afford cars" to "company X workers should be able to afford company X products".

Rather it should turn into something like "Factory workers should be able to afford cars".