This is an inacurrate estimation. I guess your figure of 1% is from South Korea case fatality rate. The confirmed cases represent a biased sample of the population, and the mortality rate could be lower in reality (but not higher).
> consider the economic impact of 13M people suddenly dying.
The mortality is mainly for 70+ years old people, who are already not in the workforce anymore.
Those numbers cannot help us to evaluate or to compare one state's measure versus another state's decision
Sure, the actual number will likely be different for each country / state / city, but doesn't really matter for the sake of the argument. I was using 1% as a lowball number. Official mortality rate from the WHO is 3-4%; some studies say 2%, Italy is reporting 7%.
And for those 80+, current data suggests a mortality rate of 1/7 - not far off from a round of Russian roulette.
So if you have 4 grandparents who are 80+, there's a ~60% chance at least one will die if the disease spreads through our population in the next few months.
> The mortality is mainly for 70+ years old people, who are already not in the workforce anymore.
Firstly, if hospitals are overrun (which is the way we're headed), people of all ages will die preventable deaths. Hospitals in the US are already postponing elective surgeries.
Secondly, it's simply not true that older people don't contribute to the economy.
The elderly still consume food, housing, health care etc., and a negative demand shock is a recipe for recession. For example, think about what happens to nursing homes or physical therapists if a large percentage of older people die. Or what happens to local housing prices if lots of homes are suddenly put up for sale because elderly owners died en masse.
And many older people continue to work and volunteer (e.g. just look at our president, congressmen, and senators), and that some grandparents help with child care (like in my family right now).
Sources: - https://time.com/5798168/coronavirus-mortality-rate/ - https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/lamvo/coronavirus-death... - https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/heres-why-the-coronavirus-deat... - https://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/economic-growth...
"That means the total number of reported cases is very likely an underestimate—and by not counting many mild or asymptomatic cases, we’re likely overestimating the disease’s overall mortality rate."
It is not possible to know the mortality rate with the information we have. Extrapolating that dubious number into a prediction of deaths is not a meaningful exercise.
In general, with exponential growth the best time to act was yesterday.
The amount of infected is not and will not ever be known and it's a dark time for statistics when many are taking the non-randomly tested and dividing by fatalities and projecting deaths on large populations.
Exponential growth is how successful infections progress. There is nothing new to see here. This sort of aggressive strain was easily foreseeable years ago and we rely on strategic, planned measures to be executed by government.
Random, localized shutdowns only serve to exacerbate the unwarranted panic we are now seeing. The time to think was years in the coming, the actions now display an enormous failure in leadership.
Always makes me sad when Americans willing give up essential liberty to purchase perceived safety. Personally I would much rather look the situation rational, may the assessment of risk for myself, then choose on my own what course of action(s) I will take. Not have those actions dictated and imposed on me by an authoritarian government.
I would rather lose my health or my life than to lose my liberty
In other words, it's also your liberty vs other people's lives.
Are you going to be the grandson who kills his grandma? Or the employee who kills the CEO? Or the Trump supporter who ends up helping elect Biden?
What if they live with or are cared for by other family members?
How will they get health care for existing conditions? Hospitals have been shown to be a major vector for transmission [1]. And how do they even get to the hospital if they can't drive?
What about grocery shopping over the next few months? The National Guard is stepping in to help deliver food in New Rochelle now. Can that scale to the entire nation? For how long?
What if they live in a nursing home? Look what happened in the Seattle one [2].
[1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2761044
[2] https://www.foxnews.com/health/washington-state-nursing-home...
Not sure how this is relevant to my post.
> What if they live in a nursing home in close proximity to other elderly people?
The nursing home could stock up and ban people from coming in or out of it.
Many older people cannot just stop getting medical care, and by doing so will be exposed to COVID-19. Especially because hospitals and clinics are overwhelmed by COVID-19 patients.
> The nursing home could stock up and ban people from coming in or out of it.
And all the nursing home staff will be locked inside and not leave for months? Where do they sleep / shower etc?None of the nursing home staff have families or children to care for?
My grandparents are long long dead
>>Or the employee who kills the CEO?
Maybe the CEO should have thought about that and given his employees a work from home, or other policies to allow themselves to self quarantine.
I also find it telling you talk about the employees giving it to the CEO and not the other way around... I am sure there is a Parable in there about unwashed masses
>Or the Trump supporter who ends up helping elect Biden?
Not a Trump supporter, but I do find it amusing you believe only Trump supporters support liberty, and only Biden supporters support authoritarianism
Though I dont think anything will help Biden win, he less electable than Clinton was in 2016
er...what are you trying to say? So other people's grandparents can go f* themselves?
> I do find it amusing you believe only Trump supporters support liberty
Nope, I mentioned Trump supporters because Trump was dragging his feet on cancelling his massive rallies [1]. Thankfully they've been cancelled now.
[1] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/11/21174945/b...
Government never roll back control they have ceased. Look at the after effects of 9/11, those provisions where to be "temporary" yet have been renewed endlessly and will always be renewed
Because it worked. Millions of lives have been saved - 1% of 1.3B is 13M people. That's 1/5 of Italy.
Are there better models? Maybe. But there are also much worse models, as I suspect we might soon find out in the US [1]. Personally I'd much rather take the Chinese model for the next few months than risk me and my family dying or going bankrupt over the next few months.
And, instead of thinking that China could "afford to take the economical hit", consider the economic impact of 13M people suddenly dying. At this point, there's definitely going to be a hit to the economy. It's just going to be either A) from stricter lock downs and government aid, or B) from more people dying due to overrun hospitals. It might not be a wash in terms of the dollar amount, but it's clear which option will save more lives.
[1] Comparing China and US response:
- China has made treatment (not just testing) for coronavirus free for everyone. In the US...better hope you have good insurance.
- Tests performed per million people: China 2,800, US 5
- China is ordering banks to increase loans to SMBs rather than hoarding cash to protect themselves. It has rolled out a bunch of policies to support SMBs and employees. The US...well, not much so far.
Sources: https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-how-many-coronavirus-tes... https://qz.com/1813181/china-is-taking-pleasure-in-us-mishan... https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3052474/c... https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-latest-regional-m...