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Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by TeMPOraL on Saturday March 14, 2020 @08:55PM (#22580125)
I still don't get how people - including apparently some governments - don't get or don't believe it. Getting this graph is as simple as 1) taking the daily measurements, and 2) plotting them on log scale (and technically 3) shifting the lines to overlap, but that's just cosmetics). The trajectory of the entire West being the same as Italy's is immediately apparent.
Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by jamesrcole on Saturday March 14, 2020 @09:32PM (#22580354)
In part, because they think they already understand the situation, and the nature of that understanding precludes taking things like that seriously.

“It’s just the flu”

“It only kills 2% of people”

“The flu, cancer, car accidents, malnutrition, etc have killed far more people”

“People were worried about SARS, Swine Flu, and H1N1, and they turned out to be hardly kill anyone.”

“There number of cases here is small. Why are you panicking over nothing?”

“People need to stop panicking. People are going hysterical. The media is trying to make people panic. Just look at them hoarding toilet paper”.

“People are trying to ruin the economy over nothing”

“The experts — epidemiologists — say there’s nothing to worry about” (I’ve had this said to me and I was given a link to a news article that spun statements from some epidemiologists to make it sound that way. They were saying that they didn’t know how the situation would pan out, and this was presented as if it meant they didn’t think there was any issue).

I imagine that most people aren’t aware of the graphs. I imagine most people would be dismissive of them for reasons like the following:

They simply believe the apparent normalcy in front of them more than some abstract maths. They don’t grasp the notion of exponential growth, so it seems fanciful. They also don’t understand how it’s possible to project into the future like that. Maybe they think it’s just fear-mongering speculation. What concrete evidence do they actually have for the situation in Italy? And why should they believe what’s going on in a different country will apply to their country. Maybe their country has a good health care system, and they assume that Italy doesn't.

Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by VladimirGolovin on Sunday March 15, 2020 @02:06AM (#22581672)
> I imagine that most people aren’t aware of the graphs.

And even if they are, they aren't aware of log scale.

Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by Frost1x on Sunday March 15, 2020 @10:27AM (#22583639)
Definitely. Noticing it's log scale (or anything non-linear) takes a trained eye.

I've worked with, presented, and consumed a lot of scientific data over my career and I still have a tendency to assume plots are linear no matter how many times I tell myself to always check scale first.

Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by TeMPOraL on Sunday March 15, 2020 @10:48AM (#22583739)
Any half-decent plot aimed at non-specialists will have "log scale" written in the title or surrounding description. The one linked by 'soVeryTired didn't, which is where FT dropped the ball. But it does not matter here.

The relevant axis on this chart is the time axis, the x axis. The chart is linear in it. You see a bunch of nearly identical trend lines, and you have to just count how many days a given country is behind Italy. It doesn't matter what scale the vertical axis is in.

Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by jamesrcole on Sunday March 15, 2020 @10:59AM (#22583797)
> Any half-decent plot aimed at non-specialists will have "log scale" written in the title or surrounding description

I have to wonder how many non-specialists would even know what “log scale” means.

Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by TeMPOraL on Sunday March 15, 2020 @02:51PM (#22585654)
I didn't mean a non-specialist as in an average Joe; I meant an above-average Joe with some interest in one or more of: economy, physics, electronics, mathematics, biology. There's loads of such people.
Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by everybodyknows on Saturday March 14, 2020 @09:34PM (#22580359)
>log scale

There's your answer. To 90% of elected officials, a "log scale" sounds like something a timber company might weigh their product with.

Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by Animats on Saturday March 14, 2020 @09:12PM (#22580227)
It's much worse than that. Italy's health system is already collapsing at 20,000 victims. The population of Italy is 60 million. That has to level off at some point due to saturation, but that's at somewhere in the millions or tens of millions.
Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by riffraff on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:06AM (#22582111)
FWIW, at the moment it's only lombardy's health system which is collapsing, because most of the victims are concentrated there and the growth rate there was _much_ faster because the lock down was only imposed late.

The growth rate is the same in other regions but delayed, and there is some hope that the rest of the country might be able to cope with it better if the lock down measures are effective.

Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by sgc on Sunday March 15, 2020 @09:55AM (#22583492)
Hopefully. But the health care system in Lombardia has to be the best or at the top of entire the country. Southern Italy will struggle with fewer cases.
Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by TeMPOraL on Saturday March 14, 2020 @09:14PM (#22580237)
Worse still, Italy has one of the better healthcare systems. This doesn't bode well for the rest of Europe.
Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by disgruntledphd2 on Sunday March 15, 2020 @09:57AM (#22583500)
Well Lombardy does (number 2 in the regions of the EU). I believe that some Italian commentators have said that one of the biggest reasons for the total country lockdown was that the health systems of Southern Italy were much much worse than Lombardy, and would definitely not be able to cope.
Re:Open letter from Italy to the international scientific co... by chu4n on Sunday March 15, 2020 @03:35PM (#22586000)
Because of normalcy bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

"Normalcy bias can cause people to drastically underestimate the effects of the disaster. Therefore, people think that they will be safe even though information from the radio, television, or neighbors gives them reasons to believe there is a risk."

People just don't want to believe a disaster is about to happen. They will grasp at straws to explain why everything is going to be fine.

That's usually not a problem because disasters are rare, but it will catch us under-prepped when an actual disaster happens.