News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by robbrown451 on Sunday March 08, 2020 @03:58PM (#22520176)
The problem, if it is even a problem, is that 99% of the reason we initially sought out honey no longer exists. We liked it because it was the purest source of sugar that was available. We didn't care that it happened to be bee vomit flavored with a bit of plant sperm, or that we were exploiting the reproductive strategies of flowering plants, we just wanted the sweet.

This is similar with maple syrup, which comes from sugar maple trees. We sought it out for the sugar. Now that it is a really, really expensive way to get sugar, we still love it. Nevermind that other trees produce very similar flavors. Ever try birch tablets? They taste a lot like maple, probably just as complex a flavor, but of course they need regular sugar to sweeten them because birch trees make plenty of flavor, but not much in the way of sugar. Still, we seek out pure maple syrup because of tradition.

Now that we have far cheaper and purer sources of sugar, we still want honey, but again, more for traditional reasons than anything else. We try to convince ourselves of the benefits, because we really want to keep these traditional foods in our lives. And while we don't want it to be fake, we also can't actually tell the difference if it is.

This just lends itself to fraud.

Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by alecst on Sunday March 08, 2020 @05:54PM (#22520874)
Well, I like honey because good honey tastes different from plain sugar. Traveling in Greece I tasted some honeys that were unlike anything I had ever tasted before, ranging from bitter, to floral, to earthy. It's the sweetness, sure, but not only the sweetness.
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by robbrown451 on Sunday March 08, 2020 @09:11PM (#22522024)
I suspect you can get equal or better flavors elsewhere. If it comes from the clover, couldn't you just get them from the flowers?

I'm not suggesting honey flavors have no benefit, but it just seems odd that we have chosen those specific flavors as being tasty (honey and maple), when their primary attraction was that they came with sugar which was otherwise scarce (but no longer is).

Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by lonelappde on Sunday March 08, 2020 @11:12PM (#22522662)
But that's all flavor is. Yes it's an obsolete sense, but we are animals not computers. We can't download a new taste program to change what we like.
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by robbrown451 on Sunday March 08, 2020 @11:41PM (#22522809)
Are you saying that desire for honey is hard wired into us? I believe that's true for sugar, but not the additional flavors in honey.

Anyway, people buy fake honey simply because they think it is honey. So I don't think it is the specific taste that you can only get from actual honey.

Most people these days buy fake maple syrup (since real is so expensive), and tests have shown most can't tell the difference from real, and many prefer the fake.

Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by alecst on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:02AM (#22532875)
Rob I'm not disagreeing with your greater point but do you mind linking me to some of these taste tests with maple syrup? I could only find one in a cursory search online and it was between two people. Sorry to bug you!
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by lmm on Sunday March 08, 2020 @07:15PM (#22521367)
Do you like (sweetened) birch? Why or why not?
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by smt88 on Sunday March 08, 2020 @04:01PM (#22520204)
Some farmers in places with depleted pollinators have to ship honeybees in to their fields. Harvesting honey from those bees makes that cheaper.

Even without that usage, harvesting honey can be harmless to bees and benefit surrounding plant life. That makes it one of the best (if not the best) sources of concentrated sugar from an environmental perspective.

Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by robbrown451 on Sunday March 08, 2020 @04:25PM (#22520366)
From an environmental perspective, sure. But not from an economic perspective.

That's great if they can sell it and make money to subsidize the other part of their business (pollination). But if the economics aren't there, that's unrealistic.

Remember, honey bees harvest honey as food for themselves during winter. If you take away their honey, then you need to feed them sugar. The most practical thing is to leave the honey for the bees, and make sugar for humans from other sources that are cheaper (can, beats etc). If honey has some amazing benefit for humans that can't be replicated (whether flavor or health), fine, but the fact that so many can't tell the difference tells me that that isn't sustainable.

Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by markdown on Sunday March 08, 2020 @06:20PM (#22521019)
> Remember, honey bees harvest honey as food for themselves during winter.

This is only in some parts of the world. My bees have never known winter.

Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by robbrown451 on Sunday March 08, 2020 @09:14PM (#22522036)
So why do bees go to so much effort to make honey? To please humans?
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by markdown on Sunday March 08, 2020 @09:36PM (#22522143)
They're saving for a rainy day.
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by totalZero on Sunday March 08, 2020 @04:42PM (#22520470)
Honey sells at a premium to refined sugar. Your argument doesn't make any sense.
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by 1123581321 on Sunday March 08, 2020 @06:03PM (#22520931)
This is a discussion of an article about the price of real honey potentially falling below sustainable levels. Below those levels, sugar may still cost less but the farmers may not find the operation worthwhile due to other costs.
Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by robbrown451 on Sunday March 08, 2020 @09:13PM (#22522034)
Honey sells at a premium, sure, as does flavored sugar that people think is honey.

I think you're missing my point but I don't have time to elaborate.

Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by LargoLasskhyfv on Sunday March 08, 2020 @08:50PM (#22521911)
I like birch sap/juice/water with mint like here

https://www.amazon.de/Dovgan-Birkensaft-mit-Minzgeschmack-Pa...

Probably not the "real" thing like the locals who produce it have, but as a city dweller i'm happy to be able to put it in my shopping cart. Once exotic and only to be had in russian speciality markets, it popped up in larger supermarkets with a full sortiment in the russian isles, and in the last few weeks even Lidl had it.

Re:Fancy honey might not actually be honey by rolph on Sunday March 08, 2020 @09:00PM (#22521963)
and guess what, bees go nuts over stuff like that.

if you have access to a lot of raw birch sap you can have birch honey which is dark and robust, and quite dear unless you have acreage of birch trees and a ^lot^ of bees in spring.