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Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by TheOtherHobbes on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @01:41PM (#22425846)
You're confusing your hypothetical personal success with the state of the system as a whole.

Most businesses will fail, and most businesses are built on loans of some kind rather than bootstrapped.

Rent-seekers will try to profit from this because they will claw back their "investment" in the form of collateral - preferably physical, but IP as a last resort.

If businesses succeed, rent-seekers will profit from their "investment" with an aggressive term sheet that gives their return priority over returns for the people who did the work.

At the same time, rent-seekers will be investing in property. If there's a run of successful businesses in an area they will gain by increasing rents and speculating on property prices.

This is basically just asset inflation - very good for rent-seekers, very bad for people who need access to limited resources like housing and health care.

This isn't even getting into the costs of externalities.

The picture as a whole is a lot more complicated than "My business succeeded and now I'm making money, so there's no zero sum here."

Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by chrisco255 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:02PM (#22426061)
Without the loan up front, most businesses never get off the ground to begin with. You're calling lenders "rent-seekers" like they don't provide a valuable, essential service that underpins the whole economy. If I want to start a business, I can either 1) raise capital in exchange for equity, 2) borrow money at a set interest rate or 3) save money for years until I personally have enough to start a company.

For many types of businesses, option 1 isn't a tenable option. Outside of the tech industry, the margins are lower and there is not a large network of VC angels for things like restaurants, farms, retail stores, home services, etc.

The classic example would be farming equipment. Sure, you could save for 10 years to buy an International Harvester Combine. Or you could borrow money to buy the Combine today, your efficiency goes up 10x and you pay off the loan with the higher profits you reap. Then, if you want to expand your farm, you might likewise save for 10 years to buy another plot of land...or you could borrow money today and buy that land and use leverage to grow quicker. The loan created wealth by enabling the farmer to become more productive.

Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by refurb on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:03PM (#22426069)
At the same time, rent-seekers will be investing in property. If there's a run of successful businesses in an area they will gain by increasing rents and speculating on property prices.

And if they are speculating and the market goes south, they will lose their investment.

It’s not like there isn’t risk involved.

Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by dr_dshiv on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @01:48PM (#22425901)
Wow, that's really depressing. I thought hard work and good ideas were important and valuable contributions to society.
Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by iso1210 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:31PM (#22426390)
Yes, that's the american dream. The problem with america is too many people believe the american dream, that you can go 'rags to riches' with hard work and perseverance.

The people working 90 hour weeks and barely able to make rent apparently aren't working hard enough.

Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by chrisco255 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:02PM (#22427292)
You can. I used to work in a retirement community in Florida. I met thousands of retirees who either through their own business or from stock earned in a corporate job or from a solid 401K savings had more than $1 million in net worth. There's more than 10 million households with a net worth of over $1 million in the U.S [1]. It's not hard work and perseverance that matters. It's smart work and money management that matters.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/617390/us-millionaire-ho...

Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by sgift on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:21PM (#22427472)
Perfect example for survivorship bias. To live in a retirement community you have to have money. So, when you work in a retirement community you see retired people who have money. What you don't see are all the people who made the same decisions, did the same things, but for some reason didn't end up in a retirement community in Florida.
Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by chrisco255 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:14PM (#22427976)
There's plenty of lower-income retirement communities in Florida too. You can buy homes there for $100K or so, so you don't even need to be a millionaire. I would say, that if 1 in 30 Americans are millionaires, that is direct evidence that it's not some impossible, unachievable dream. 1 in 3 have a net worth greater than $200K.
Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by iso1210 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @06:08PM (#22428472)
Of course it's not impossible

What you're saying is that the majority of people have a net worth

So working harder than the majority of people will still mean you end up with a tiny net worth, the fear of bankrupcy from medical bills at any point in life, the fear of losing your home (if you're lucky enough to get a home in the first place)

America is a country where cops arrest 6 year old girls for the crime of being black. The american dream? Hah. Look at the american reality.

1 in 30 'make it'. 29 in 30 don't, and life is hell for them.

Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by chrisco255 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @06:12PM (#22428518)
To the above comment I can't reply to, no, the median income in the U.S. is $63K. It's far from hell and no other country produces the abundance we have at the scale we do. Get outside the U.S. and go see the other 95% of the world.
Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by refurb on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @06:09PM (#22428484)
The American Dream was never “rags to riches”. It was a comfortable middle class lifestyle.
Re:Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capital... by wolfram74 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:26PM (#22426340)
The mathematical description might be "necessary but not sufficient".