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Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by csomar on Saturday February 15, 2020 @05:13PM (#22338380)
> In the entire time I was there I attempted to see a specialist for a condition that I had maybe two or three times, I ended up giving up every single time after I was told the wait time is between 3-4 months.

It's the same thing they say about France (having a great healthcare system). But doctors [1] are going on strikes because of lack of amenities. Makes you wonder...

A private system where you chose your provider will always be better, imo, because the providers will have to compete. I think the US could do much better if they improve the pricing visibility and get the free market to make the prices go down. (I'm not very well versed in this topic, I'm just reading the news)

1 - https://www.cnews.fr/france/2019-12-14/pourquoi-les-medecins...

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by tonyedgecombe on Sunday February 16, 2020 @02:32AM (#22340377)
I can't see any way health care can become a truly free market, the patient doesn't have enough information or knowledge. They could rely on their doctor but you can see from the painkiller overprescription that doctors are open to manipulation. Also if I'm writhing around on the floor in agony because my Appendix is about to burst I'm not going to be phoning around for the cheapest quote.
Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by ernst_klim on Sunday February 16, 2020 @03:58AM (#22340635)
> the patient doesn't have enough information or knowledge

You don't need one, all you need is brand and reputation. Customer doesn't know much about products in most markets: electronics, cars, software. It's never a problem when you have lasting brands/companies servicing many people with various level of knowledge.

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by tonyedgecombe on Sunday February 16, 2020 @05:05AM (#22340833)
It's not working that well in software, one company has 90% of the desktop market. Phone operating systems are divided between two companies. The car industry is being dragged screaming and kicking into EV's. And these are industries where it's reasonably easy to pick and choose compared to trying to switch hospitals or doctors part way through your treatment.
Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by ernst_klim on Sunday February 16, 2020 @05:15AM (#22340867)
> It's not working that well in software, one company has 90% of the desktop market.

Because the company uses quite a lot of administrative pressure (patent trolling, vendor's bullying etc etc), hence the market is not competitive.

You are talking about competitive markets here, not information asymmetry. I see no evidence that monopolies are the outcome of asymmetry of knowledge, but rather that they are the outcomes of significant administrative measures like license-bullying or patent-trolling.

The only markets that have the problem of information asymmetry are lemon markets.

> And these are industries where it's reasonably easy to pick and choose compared to trying to switch hospitals or doctors part way through your treatment.

It's way easier to change a doctor than to change a car. There are only few conditions which restrain one from bargaining: heart attacks and other severe conditions, and these should be treated differently.

But in case of the vast majority of diseases from common cold to Epstein-Barr changing the doctor and bargaining is even simpler than in most other markets.

But again, bargaining power has nothing to do with information asymmetry as well.

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by tonyedgecombe on Sunday February 16, 2020 @11:28AM (#22342249)
Because the company uses quite a lot of administrative pressure (patent trolling, vendor's bullying etc etc), hence the market is not competitive.

and you think that won't happen with health care?

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by ernst_klim on Sunday February 16, 2020 @02:23PM (#22343279)
> and you think that won't happen with health care?

It could happen, but it's totally unrelated to the original thesis regarding information asymmetry.

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by tonyedgecombe on Monday February 17, 2020 @03:21AM (#22346293)
It is related, it is part of the obfuscation that corporations engage in to gain an advantage.

There are some things that work really well in a free market but health care will never be of those.

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by jackfoxy on Saturday February 15, 2020 @05:34PM (#22338507)
We should absolutely have full transparency into services, providers, and cost, regardless of what other public policy is adopted.

One can make the argument that some big share of the affordability issue has been generated by the government in its policies of preventing cost transparency for medical services and drugs.

I'm not saying cost transparency will solve every problem, but this is a government caused problem. I have heard no good reasons for the monopoly pricing granted the medical industry.

Also bear in mind the whole system of government subsidized employer group health insurance was invented by the government to satisfy the labor unions, way back when private sector labor unions had influence.

Now only government employee labor unions have influence, and boy what influence they have. Just remember, public employees are in entirely different social benefit and retirement systems than us mortals.

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by LeoTinnitus on Saturday February 15, 2020 @06:02PM (#22338644)
This is my major problem with the US system. Also lots of doctors or dentists will require you to have unnecessary procedures which pile on to the costs. And they will refuse to provide you service unless you get them oftentimes too.

It's almost just as bad as the collegiate system here as well. Except the college system you can somewhat anticipate costs. Insurance is a total gamble.

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by Something1234 on Saturday February 15, 2020 @05:20PM (#22338422)
I'm confused as to why you're being downvoted.

But I completely agree with you on the free market. My personal issue with going to the doctor is I have no idea what my bill will be at the end of the day.

Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by dmurray on Saturday February 15, 2020 @05:33PM (#22338499)
Perhaps he's being downvoted (not by me!) because the claim is self-contradictory. Either a market based system "always will be better", or it could be "better if they improve the pricing visibility", which is it? Unless he's saying the US system is already superior to all others, but could be made better still. That seems like an ambitious claim.
Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by csomar on Saturday February 15, 2020 @06:08PM (#22338673)
A non-transparent system is not one I'll define as a free market based system.
Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by dmurray on Saturday February 15, 2020 @06:28PM (#22338775)
That's a "no true Scotsman" problem, though. If the US doesn't (or didn't pre-ACA) have a market-based healthcare system, then who does? And if no one does, how do we know it's better?
Re:Sweden gives employees unpaid time off to be entrepreneur... by asiachick on Saturday February 15, 2020 @08:11PM (#22339189)
No, it's not a "no true scotsman" problem. The US is fundamentally not a market based system. Painting it as such is just wrong.