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A comment on Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s looking.

Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by tarkin2 on Saturday February 15, 2020 @03:18PM (#22337689)
You’re a company. You have the power to influence the opinions of millions, those millions can - by vote or brute force - hold their government accountable. Do you take an independent choice based on your morals and the information you’ve seen, or do you take the road to the biggest pile of cash?
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by pridkett on Saturday February 15, 2020 @03:56PM (#22337911)
It’s not that simple. The Indian government literally bans maps that depict the national boundaries as different. It’s even a question on their customs forms [0]. Taking a position like you suggest is always a debate and is rarely black and white. Draw the maps differently and suddenly Google stops working. Now what? Not only do you lose business, but any other value you could provide to people in the country has now been nullified.

[0] http://www.cbic.gov.in/resources//htdocs-cbec/customs/forms_...

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by amingilani on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:05PM (#22337960)
I concur, and it's the same on the Pakistani side[1]. If you don't play by the rules online, you're blocked in the country.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22337891

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by 8note on Sunday February 16, 2020 @03:00PM (#22343443)
you're discounting that they might mean Google should influence the American government to change India's maps by brute force.

"Gun boat diplomacy" comes to mind

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by marcinzm on Saturday February 15, 2020 @03:22PM (#22337714)
>Do you take an independent choice based on your morals and the information you’ve seen, or do you take the road to the biggest pile of cash?

You mean, do you force your moral viewpoints on the rest of the world? I would have figured that the last 500 years of colonization showed the issue with viewing one's own morals as superior to the rest of the world.

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by Carpetsmoker on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:12PM (#22338017)
Eh, that seems rather harsh. The question is whether or not Google should show these borders as disputed, and I don't think anyone can reasonably deny that, in fact, these borders are a matter of dispute. Showing them as disputed is considerably more neutral than just taking one side (whether that's also realistic/feasible politically is another matter, and also not agreeing with the parent commenter btw).
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by wanderer2323 on Saturday February 15, 2020 @05:47PM (#22338567)
Then the viewpoints you are forcing becomes whether the border is 'disputed' which is not much better and it makes your map a mess.
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by anigbrowl on Saturday February 15, 2020 @07:13PM (#22338950)
Who in the offended country is being forced to use an external map they find annoying? Those governments can make their own maps and share them with your population, like any other product or service that conflicts with regulations in some jurisdictions.

What they're looking for, and some corporations are willing to provide, is the appearance of endorsement by external authorities for their political stance. Anyone in the country who disputes the border layout can be 'refuted' with 'just check Google, that proves the border runs thus and so.'

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by retsibsi on Saturday February 15, 2020 @06:14PM (#22338712)
When the dispute is only formal, yes, it's a subjective question whether both parties are important enough for us to take the dispute seriously. But when a border is disputed in the 'troops and border skirmishes' sense? Ignoring that is verging on denying physical reality.
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by Carpetsmoker on Saturday February 15, 2020 @07:12PM (#22338947)
Well, yeah; maps are a mess sometimes; that's just the way it is. The core criticism in this article is that Google presents maps as simple without context while in fact they are not.
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by anigbrowl on Saturday February 15, 2020 @07:06PM (#22338925)
False binary. You can just put things out there as you see them and then other people can take it or leave it as they see fit.
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by fortran77 on Saturday February 15, 2020 @05:14PM (#22338387)
How do I know who's right? I guess I'm not as smart as the 10xers here on hacker news who seem to always know the "right" side to take.

I don't know what side to take on England vs Ireland, India vs Pakistan, Russia vs Ukraine, and dozens of others around the world (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes )

So I'm not quick to judge. I don't even know if there exists an ethical and moral answer to these questions.

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by Quarrelsome on Saturday February 15, 2020 @03:28PM (#22337748)
I don't think that's a fair assessment as the alternative might well be their services being blocked by that region and a local service implementing this exact status quo.

Exactly the same outcome just without Google. Its a bit of a Pyrrhic victory to withdraw from those markets on ethical grounds.

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by retsibsi on Saturday February 15, 2020 @10:58PM (#22339696)
I'm not sure what Google should do, but someone else made a good point that I think applies here: 'Google says X' probably has much greater propaganda value than 'this local company that is clearly under our government's authority says X'.
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by Mountain_Skies on Saturday February 15, 2020 @03:29PM (#22337759)
How would you decide on the issue of Islas Malvinas (Falkland Islands)? What is the independent morally correct answer?
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by lukeqsee on Saturday February 15, 2020 @03:29PM (#22337758)
Unfortunately, it’s not this simple and certainly not this idealistic.

1) A (public) company’s first duty is to increase shareholder value, ergo, you take the cash.

2) That company wouldn’t have any influence on those millions if they aren’t in the market, so the point is moot. They’re either in the market under the constraints by the governing body or they aren’t in the market.

I’m not saying this is how I think the world should work; I am saying this is how it does work.

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by Consultant32452 on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:57PM (#22338291)
This isn't strictly true. A public company's first duty is to fulfill its stated purpose in its articles of incorporation. While that's often to maximize profits, it's not always the case. For example, your for profit company might also have a stated purpose to protect the environment.
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by lukeqsee on Saturday February 15, 2020 @05:09PM (#22338359)
Ah, yes, valid.

Unfortunately that’s precious few public companies.

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by FpUser on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:01PM (#22337938)
"those millions can - by vote or brute force - hold their government accountable."

I am sort of speechless. You advocate people taking up arms against their government all upon advice of "high morals" spread by corporations.

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by cnst on Saturday February 15, 2020 @03:46PM (#22337864)
No, companies are there to make value for their shareholders.

They have to do it in an ethical way, sure. But there's also the practical reality of which country the region is affiliated with, and what was the voice of the people living in said region. Denying this voice, just because it hasn't been recognised internationally, is not the sort of activism that for-profit companies should be engaged in.

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by BurningFrog on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:04PM (#22337957)
Are you saying that if Google choose to display certain borders, the real borders might follow?

I might call that "delusion of grandeur by proxy"...

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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by avip on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:09PM (#22337995)
But surely google could just buy Kashmir, or Nagorno-Karabakh, and lease it to the relevant parties?
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Re:Google redraws the borders on maps depending on who’s loo... by avip on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:18PM (#22338050)
Your poetic post seems to imply there is some "right" border to be drawn between conflict zones?
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