News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by cycrutchfield on Thursday February 13, 2020 @04:47PM (#22321761)
As a consumer, that may be good in the short term. But innovation isn’t free. In a world where people can just copy other people’s hard work with impunity, what incentive is there to invest in innovation?
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by blackrock on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:13PM (#22321949)
This is a tiring trope.

It’s like how the music industry kept saying that people would no longer sing and make songs, because piracy would prevent them from doing so. As if there was no money to be made, and money was the only point of singing. As if piracy ever stopped people from singing for the past 10,000 years.

Well, artists do make money from songs, by having concerts. They are selling the service and the experience of of a live performance. This was the way that it had always been done throughout human history.

Or Apple for example, they don’t make money from selling software, but they make it from selling very expensive hardware, that they force to expire after a few years.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by wolco on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:38PM (#22322129)
People will keep singing and dancing and making music like they have always done. Most didn't make money from it. Sheet music changed that briefly, tapes/records/cds. Music = Copyright = money is a modern thing.

Getting billions invested in anything won't happen without a return. If a company is limited to a short window before everyone can copy means less funding and more valueless throwaway products.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by socialdemocrat on Thursday February 13, 2020 @06:48PM (#22322551)
There is a happy balance to be had here. Patents as they exist today is often hindering innovation rather than promoting it. E.g. 3D printing really took off when 3D printing patents started expiring. The industry was stuck while patents where enforceable.

In many industries patents are an innovation blocker. Companies often spend more money fighting patents trolls than they gain form having patents. Patens are increasingly acquired for defensive purpose to defend against patent troll attacks rather than actually protecting any innovation.

I am not against intellectual property protection, but I think how things have developed in the US in particular is excessive and counterproductive.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by blackrock on Thursday February 13, 2020 @10:00PM (#22323630)
Exactly. Like solar panels. It existed for decades, and languished in the labs, behind patent protections, until the patents expired. Then China came onto the scene, and innovated in mass production techniques to make it cheaper.

And now, solar energy just crossed a milestone, at 4 cents per kilowatt hour, making it competitive with other energy sectors.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by blackrock on Thursday February 13, 2020 @10:35PM (#22323781)
> less funding and more valueless throwaway products

Everything is derivative.

Even the latest generation of CPU technology pushing faster clock rates and adding more cores. It’s still derivative of the initial idea of the transistor.

You build value by building a moat. You make your business more valuable by making it harder for others to get into, almost like a natural monopoly.

Like consumer automobiles, which require a huge investment in societal knowledge and capability. Only a few countries can mass produce cars at a commercial level. Or commercial airplanes, where only a few companies can really make a profit. Or even Tesla, by changing the paradigm, from internal combustion engines, to fully electric drivetrains.

My initial comment was only to rebut the idea that you can’t do anything without massive amounts of patents and copyrights. Which in itself, has gone too far.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by fhbdukfrh on Thursday February 13, 2020 @06:08PM (#22322305)
This is true for a lot of important drugs that don't have massively lucrative markets to recover their investment. This means fewer new antibiotics for global issues and more penis pills.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by blackrock on Thursday February 13, 2020 @09:47PM (#22323581)
> fewer new antibiotics

So companies don’t do this, because there is no profit in it? Perhaps, that is the problem with late stage capitalism itself? Everyone wants to become a rent-seeking landlord.

What about a societal need? What about for the survival of the human race?

This is like arguing that humanity can’t muster up the ingenuity to solve something to save the human race, just because there’s no profit in it.

Necessity is the mother of all invention. If there are fewer antibiotics, then maybe this just means that it is not necessary.

Sorry folks! You’re just going to have to take your chances with the Grim Reaper! My bank account can’t be bothered to find a cure for you.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by vertig0h on Thursday February 13, 2020 @06:16PM (#22322347)
This is a shortsighted view. Evidence from many other industries with weak property rights contradicts your point. Nigeria's film industry is unable to allocate significant resources to film production in large part because Nigeria's government is incapable of enforcing copyright on behalf of the filmmakers.

Stealing IP does have an impact on capital allocation.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by megablast on Thursday February 13, 2020 @08:26PM (#22323162)
Doesn't Nigeria make more films than everyone else? I am not sure how this supports your point? There is no way Nigeria will put in the money that the US does.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by chillacy on Friday February 14, 2020 @01:58AM (#22324528)
Actually sort of true, though I might say a better example is Singapore, which attracts business in part because it has the strongest legal system and lowest corruption of the countries in southeast asia.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by socialdemocrat on Thursday February 13, 2020 @06:42PM (#22322517)
One can take a balanced position on this without going to either extreme. American companies have certainly abused the patent and copyright system by allowing patents to last for far too long and cover too much. Likewise copyrights have been applied for too long time periods.

Yet I don't think the solution to this problem is to abandoned both systems completely. Rather copyright period should be shortened, and patents should cover less and last for a shorter time.

Right now the system is not setup to support innovation and creation but rather to act as cash cow for big corporations.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by frequentnapper on Thursday February 13, 2020 @08:01PM (#22323002)
It's not just about disregarding IP patents. It's about corporate espionage. Literally sending in spies/criminals to steal from a corporation.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by blackrock on Thursday February 13, 2020 @10:07PM (#22323655)
Corporate espionage is a financial crime. If you have strategic secrets, then lock those damn secrets up!

Put heavy encryption on it. Keep it off the internet. Keep your computers air-gapped.

If you don’t do this, then sorry, this is your fault.

However, if someone else wants to compete with you, then they can just reverse engineer what you did. Any engineer competent enough can figure out the process details, by just working backwards. They don’t even need to bother looking at your source code or blueprints.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by slimed on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:28PM (#22322064)
Comparing writing new songs to developing new technology is apples to oranges. It doesn't require billions of dollars and man-hours in R&D to follow your passion and write the next big hit. It just takes talent and a few years of practice, if that.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by TeMPOraL on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:14PM (#22321955)
Making things better?

Though as used, "innovation" really means "figuring out new things to make money on", which renders your question tautological - "in a world where it's harder to invent new tricks that make money, what incentive is there to invest in inventing new things that make money?".

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by effie on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:05AM (#22325070)
Nailed it.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by benaadams on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:07PM (#22321917)
I hear OSS is doing well when it comes to innovation...
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by bcrosby95 on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:16PM (#22321976)
Most people working on OSS are paid by companies that rely heavily on closed source innovation in other areas of business.

They are commoditizing their compliments.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by effie on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:25AM (#22325148)
Even if that claim about "most people" was true, the point is still valid - OSS contributors _are_ "innovating" (creating new things to make money on), despite the innovations being freely copied. In part, the innovation happens _because_ or _with_help_ of free copying. Free sharing of some ideas/knowledge can be benefitial to innovation.

Nobody is claiming _all_ ideas business finds / works on should be immediately shared freely with the world. The benefactors of a business are naturally motivated to protect their know-how. But it should be the business' responsibility to protect its secrets, not HN commenters or governments'. If an idea can't be kept secret, then government issues patents, which should be time limited and regional.

Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by mdorazio on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:14PM (#22321958)
I hear most OSS contributions come from people who make a living working at proprietary software companies...
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by kube-system on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:26PM (#22322054)
the state of OSS hardware is pretty sad.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by gaius__baltar on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:41PM (#22322141)
As is the state of OSS medicine.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by pnako on Thursday February 13, 2020 @08:14PM (#22323074)
Open-source software is great but it's generally more derivative than innovative (there are exceptions of course).
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by effie on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:33AM (#22325191)
Innovation is a techno/bureau -cratic buzzword, which (noun) roughly means "new thing that is novel and can be used to boost the economy". A derivative of an old product can be an innovation, if you can still make or attract money on it.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by mandelbrotwurst on Thursday February 13, 2020 @04:56PM (#22321839)
Being first to market has its advantages.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by sidlls on Thursday February 13, 2020 @05:07PM (#22321908)
Shrinking advantages as the delta-t between release and the appearance of dozens of stolen cheap knockoffs decreases.
Re:The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering by chrischen on Thursday February 13, 2020 @08:45PM (#22323283)
Investing in innovation keeps you ahead. Moral of the story is that you should be constantly innovating... not innovating one time and trying to keep it a secret for maximum capitalistic market extortion.