Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by gfodor on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @07:40PM (#22252423)

So says you. Like I said, I know people like this, and I am not willing to label them as people who have poor social skills or other disparaging things. I don't consider this category of dishonesty to be one that a person necessarily needs to correct, if there are approaches to the scenario where the conflict between honesty and empathy that conflict for them could allow the person to live more according to their values by preventing the need to make the trade-off altogether.

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Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by kerkeslager on Thursday February 06, 2020 @11:32AM (#22257415)

> Like I said, I know people like this, and I am not willing to label them as people who have poor social skills or other disparaging things.

Labeling things like "ignorance" and "poor social skills" as "disparaging" isn't particularly useful. When I say someone is ignorant or has poor social skills, that's not a statement that they're a bad person, it's an identification of a problem they have (which is correctable).

> I don't consider this category of dishonesty to be one that a person necessarily needs to correct

It sounds like this may be the core of our disagreement.

I won't say that a person "needs" to correct it--instead I would say that the person, and my friendship with that person, will be significantly limited by not correcting this problem.

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Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by gizmo on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @07:50PM (#22252484)

Your suggestion that honesty and empathy are in conflict implies that honest people are less empathetic, which is at least as disparaging as anything I said.

I'm not suggesting it's something they need to correct. The problem tends to solve itself through selection. Flaky people hang out with other flaky people. Dishonest people have dishonest friends. Mercenary and opportunistic people have friends who are likewise.

Why bother with these elaborate rationalizations to justify dishonesty?

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Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by hosh on Thursday February 06, 2020 @06:28PM (#22261585)

" if there are approaches to the scenario where the conflict between honesty and empathy that conflict for them could allow the person to live more according to their values by preventing the need to make the trade-off altogether."

I disagree that avoiding the trade-off makes things better off.

But at least you've made your views known and so have I.

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