News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by lostcolony on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @04:27PM (#22251154)
That's not the reason.

Telling a friend you want to cancel is hard, and depressing, and so you oftentimes go just to not bail on them. And hate it.

But what if your friend is feeling the same way? What if you both want to cancel, but neither of you wants to hurt the other person.

Well, with something like this, you can bail without letting them down; they only know you wanted to bail -if they also want to bail-. That's the key bit.

Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by groby_b on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @04:30PM (#22251179)
Or you could be adults and talk to each other. Telling a friend you want to cancel is usually hard because you haven't practiced setting boundaries.

This app doesn't help. It just postpones the problem until you meet somebody who doesn't need the app, except now you're even further behind in practicing that skill.

I get the desire to automate interactions. I really do. I have days where I really would rather not see people at all. But it doesn't work. In the very best case, if it works as designed, it deprives you further of human interactions, making it even harder outside of the app context to interact.

Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by hombre_fatal on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @05:40PM (#22251689)
Also, parent post laments that they may go out with a friend even if they hate it.

Sheesh, if you're going to go out with me, your friend, just to be nice yet hate it, stay home. Have some respect for both of us and just cancel.

Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by brnt on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @04:31PM (#22251185)
Maybe its a cultural thing. Around here we grow up and learn to state our preferences honestly and understanding its not hurtful to be truthful but rather the opposite. Weaseling about is something you correct small children on.
Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by retsibsi on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @06:03PM (#22251822)
Does that extend to backing out of a social engagement at very short notice, simply because you no longer feel like it, without fear of causing offense? I think a lot of people make plans with friends in all sincerity, but sometimes end up feeling tired or socially burned out whatever, and wish they had left the time free but would feel unfriendly canceling at the last minute without a stronger reason.

edit: also, I think sometimes preferences are kind of fuzzy. Like, maybe I have no social energy and feel like staying in, so I'll only follow through out of a sense of obligation -- but there's a decent chance the social contact will actually energise me and be enjoyable once I snap out of my funk. So maybe the social pressure is good for me up to a point -- but if my friend is feeling the same as me, maybe we'd both be better off taking the night off and seeing each other next time.

Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by brnt on Thursday February 06, 2020 @04:19AM (#22254690)
Here is it seen as part of becoming an adult that you know your limit and don't overpromise. If you know you've had a full schedule already this week, and that you really need your friday-night on the couch, then you'd simply not set up anything that evening and ask if next week is also possible.

And if you really need to back out because of course nobody is always perfectly estimating their energy levels, you simply say it like it is: I'm tired, let's reschedule for some other time.

Respect is shown by not wasting other peoples time. Don't act, if we are really friends I'll see through you anyway, and I also respect that you really are tired and cannot come.

Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by gizmo on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @06:51PM (#22252112)
Social commitments are called that because they are exactly that: commitments. You promised to your friends you'll show so you just show. If you never flake you don't have to waste precious brain cycles agonizing on whether to cancel.

Do you want to be a flake and do you want others to think of you as a flake? If not, just keep your social commitments. Pretty basic stuff.

Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by retsibsi on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @09:55PM (#22253073)
Which is the point of this app, right? You don't want to let down your friend, so you're not going to cancel in the normal way; but in the case where the commitment no longer really suits either of you, it would be nice to take a night off, rather than both show up because you think it matters to the other person.
Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by drngdds on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @05:18PM (#22251526)
I want to be wherever you are! Here, you make up a plausible-sounding excuse, and it's up to the other person to guess whether you're just being polite or not, based on whether you've made so many excuses that it's statistically improbable that they are the truth.
Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by brnt on Thursday February 06, 2020 @04:27AM (#22254716)
I won't say nobody ever engineers an excuse (not even me ;)), but personally I feel better by just being truthful about it, I've never had a bad response to that. And I never give anyone a bad time about them cancelling either. Also, I just try to not plan too much anyway, because I know by now I need a certain amount of downtime, seems like it may be a bit more than most.

We're all human, and we all need downtime, no shame or guilt in admitting that.

Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by markk on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @04:35PM (#22251212)
There's an argument to be made that learning to have hard conversations with friends/family is a useful skill, and also builds closeness and trust over time.
Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by hnhg on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @04:37PM (#22251222)
Technology is not the answer to this problem. If I had this issue, I think the underlying issue would be confidence and the ability to communicate.
Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by rmetzler on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @04:39PM (#22251245)
Are you sure you call that person a friend when you both hate what you do together?
Re:Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free by ravenstine on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @07:08PM (#22252227)
> Telling a friend you want to cancel is hard, and depressing, and so you oftentimes go just to not bail on them. And hate it.

Holy cow, just how disempowered are people that they can't be honest with their friends?

OMG, I don't want to eat at McDonald's today, but what if Marco gets super disappointed that I won't meet him at McDonald's and eat fries with him! He'll be so depressed. I'm so depressed! .... I really hope he bails before I do.

As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I don't think that products like this help anyone. It might seem harmless, and maybe it will be, but only if few end up using it. Otherwise, it's not going to help people expand their social abilities, their sense of self value, etc.

A friendship based on withheld communication is dysfunctional.