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Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by hinkley on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @03:35PM (#22240644)
The common factor in most of my decisions to look for a new job has been realizing that I feel like a very highly compensated janitor instead of a developer.

Once I spend even the plurality of my time cleaning up messes instead of doing something new (and there are ways to do both), then all the life is sucked out of me and I just have to escape.

Telling me that I have to keep using a tool with known issues that we have to process or patches to fix would be super frustrating. And the more times we stumble over that problem the worse my confirmation bias will be.

Even if the new solution has a bunch of other problems, the set that is making someone unhappy is the one that will cause them to switch teams or quit. This is one area where management is in a tough spot with respect to rewrites.

Rewrites don't often fix many things, but if you suspect they're the only thing between you and massive employee turnover, you're between a rock and a hard place. The product is going to change dramatically, regardless of what decision you make.

Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by outworlder on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @03:47PM (#22240785)
While I completely agree with the "janitor" sentiment... and for Newton's sake I feel like Wall-E daily...

> Telling me that I have to keep using a tool with known issues that we have to process or patches to fix would be super frustrating.

All tools have known issues. It's just that some have way more issues than others. And some may hurt more than others.

Go has reached an interesting compromise. It has some elegant constructs and interesting design choices (like static compilation which also happens to be fast). The language is simple, so much so that you can learn the basics and start writing useful stuff in a weekend. But it is even more limiting than Java. A Lisp, this thing is not. You can't get very creative – which is an outstanding property for 'enterprises'. Boring, verbose code that makes you want to pull your teeth out is the name of the game.

And I'm saying this as someone who dragged a team kicking and screaming from Python to Go. That's on them – no-one has written a single line of unit tests in years, so now they at least get a whiny compiler which will do basic sanity checks before things blow up in prod. Things still 'panic', but less frequently.

Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by pstuart on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @04:29PM (#22241189)
I'll take boring over WTF code any day :-)
Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by nicoburns on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @04:37PM (#22241257)
It's not necessarily an either-or though. I'll take clear, concise expressive code over either!
Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by tensor on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @05:01PM (#22241509)
Most development jobs on products that matter involve working on large established code bases. Many people get satisfaction from knowing that their work matters to end users, even if it's not writing new things in the new shiny language or framework. Referring to these people as "janitors" is pretty damn demeaning, and says more about you than the actual job. Rewrites are rarely the right call, and doing simply to entertain developers is definitely not the right call.
Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by heinrich5991 on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @05:56PM (#22242030)
>Referring to these people as "janitors" is pretty damn demeaning,

"Referring to the term of "janitors" as demeaning is pretty demeaning and says more about you than your judgement of the parent."

I don't like this rhetoric device you just used.

Also, I think that janitors do important work as well.

Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by hu3 on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @06:24PM (#22242272)
Let's not fool ourselves.

The demeaning of janitors was introduced by GP by describing it as something they would rather not do.

No mental gymnastics required.

Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by cma on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @07:30PM (#22242775)
He said he felt like a janitor, next guy said he demeaned others as janitors, and now you are saying he demeaned janitors. There is a level of gymnastics going on.
Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by hu3 on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @07:48PM (#22242920)
First paragraph:

> The common factor in most of my decisions to look for a new job has been realizing that I feel like a very highly compensated janitor instead of a developer.

So for that person, feeling like a janitor is incentive for seeking a new job. It's that simple really.

Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by CDSlice on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @08:00PM (#22242994)
That doesn't mean he is demeaning janitors, just that he doesn't want to be one. There are loads of reasons to not want to be a "code janitor" besides looking down at janitors.
Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by rswail on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @05:18AM (#22245524)
I'm not a gymnast, but comparing people comparing their work to janitors and calling it gymnastics demeans gymnasts.

/s

Re:Why Discord is switching from Go to Rust by therockhead on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @10:37AM (#22247636)
It helps if your think gardener instead of janitor.