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Re:Tips from Poland on Old-School Zero Waste (2019) by tgsovlerkhgsel on Sunday February 02, 2020 @08:13PM (#22220655)
> Developed countries not doing this is shameful.

I'd like to establish a variant of Chesterton's fence - something like 'You don't get to get morally outraged about something without understanding "why".'

Why are developed countries not doing it? My guess would be cost, so why is a "wasteful" practice cheaper? Is it something else than externalities that aren't properly represented in the cost, or is the morally odious thing possibly more efficient, or is it something else?

Without that answer, it's hard to suggest meaningful action: If it's the externalities, we need to make them part of the cost. If it's actually more efficient this way, we need to stop demanding to make it worse. And if it's something else, then we need to figure out what it is and whether/how to address it.

But right now, it seems like random things are picked based on looks/feelings, pointed at, and demanded to change (usually to something that was done in the past and is no longer done).

Re:Tips from Poland on Old-School Zero Waste (2019) by jacquesm on Sunday February 02, 2020 @08:53PM (#22220816)
Not cost. Profits!

Externalizing these is so much cheaper to the companies involved that they do it that way. Setting up a bottle recycling plant is expensive, and that cost is not passed on to the consumer but absorbed by the company. So the profits go down.

Re:Tips from Poland on Old-School Zero Waste (2019) by e_d_e_v on Sunday February 02, 2020 @10:01PM (#22221079)
Here is an interesting and recent article which captures some of that motive: https://theintercept.com/2019/10/18/coca-cola-recycling-plas.... The truth is, that these businesses which externalize the costs are also huge interests in the areas where they are prevalent. Coke is synonymous with Georgia, so it is unlikely they will ever have a bottle deposit there. So is Waste Management (NYSE:WM) . Regarding externalities, many people believe that generating disposable things as a practice is fundamentally externalizing costs.
Re:Tips from Poland on Old-School Zero Waste (2019) by Teever on Sunday February 02, 2020 @09:54PM (#22221047)
You make a really good point and it would be relevant to this situation if it wasn't for the fact that some developed countries have implemented this policy.

The bigger question you should be asking is why haven't all developed countries adopted such obviously sensible policies. I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason is regulatory capture.

Re:Tips from Poland on Old-School Zero Waste (2019) by dsfyu404ed on Sunday February 02, 2020 @10:04PM (#22221089)
It's easy to scream regulatory capture but one man's regulatory capture is another man's sensible public health legislation preventing the re-use of food/beverage containers without being properly cleaned in a way that just so happens to almost always be be cost prohibitive. A lot of these "regulatory capture" things do have benefits other than enriching corporations but the devil is in the details so it's hard to pick out regulatory capture from special interests getting something they care about done. Except in the most egregious cases it's hard to tell which is which without being an expert in the relevant fields on any given issue.
Re:Tips from Poland on Old-School Zero Waste (2019) by Teever on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @12:09AM (#22232609)
So in other words you can't really say anything substantial about the merits of reusing bottles?

If that's the case why not take the time to look into the regions in the developed world that have implemented these systems and see how they work?

Someone else in the thread mentioned that the province of Ontario (which IIRC is the largest purchaser of alcohol in the world) has switched over to a system homogeneous bottles that are washed and reused.

If a region as vast as Ontario with a population of approximately 14 million can do this, why isn't it feasible else where?

Re:Tips from Poland on Old-School Zero Waste (2019) by morsch on Monday February 03, 2020 @05:09AM (#22222875)
If it's the externalities, we need to make them part of the cost.

Sure. But you say that as if it's easy. In some cases it's not trivial to put a monetary figure on these things. This may be why they are an externality in the first place.

More importantly, in each case where you intend to make someone pay for something they are used to getting for free, they will resist that change, even if that something is the right to pollute the river.

Making externalities part of the cost has always been a struggle. Nevertheless, I agree in principle.

Re:Tips from Poland on Old-School Zero Waste (2019) by emiliobumachar on Monday February 03, 2020 @09:52AM (#22224588)
The problem with internalizing garbage costs is that it incentivizes people to externalizing them back again but worse, by illegally dumping their waste wherever they can get away with, e.g. in a river.

If not for that problem, we could simply charge garbage collection by weight, including all costs of recycling and/or disposal, and let the market sort it out.