This is while Telsa is building out a charging network and fighting for a direct to consumer sales model and also possessing a knowledge base of every fault that's ever occurred in it's entire fleet and every Tesla Sale increases the return on Tesla's deployed capital plus a highly dedicated creative resilient workforce that are at the point of smoothing variability and product refinement.
So for BMW to win they have to bet the factory that they will take enough market share while Tesla's quality and brand strengthen. Hence the current share valuation.
Now a lot of people say Elon is a manipulative exaggerator but the fact remains he has built car sensor database company with a carbon advantage that has BMW on the ropes while reigniting a space race. If machine learning can sort the data and it seems to be improving year on year then alot of people who haven't built nearly as much will probably be taking a Tesla to work.
Why do people want Tesla to fail. Economies of scale, improving battery technology and a global charging network and everyone eventually has a cheaper travel option. How revered the founder was is a quite irrelevant.
The self-driving bit is a risk either way, but I think Tesla is dangerously close to losing out on both the “looking like a normal car” and potentially the performance factor if they’re serious about Cybertruck.
Plus I actually think the cybertruck looks awesome (you have to see it as a driving space ship not a car) and the value is amazing - so much range for not that much money. And that thing looks built to last (balls of metal thrown at the windows withstanding)
This was my first thought during the Cybertruck unveil. It no longer looks like a normal truck. Rivian was far out originally, but this blew it out the park.
So the question is really, would people want an electric pickup truck that looks like nothing before it?
I'm leaning towards yes, but we have to wait for the market to make its choice to find out for sure.
The whole problem with eg the BMW i-Series or most other electric cars is that they are designed in a silly way that says, “look at me, I’m a weird electric car, I’m not a normal car at all, I’m willing to look like a total dork in order to virtue-signal about being eco-friendly”. Teslas just look like sports cars—except the Cybertruck’s styling is 100% “dorky virtue signal about having a weird special truck”, and truck people are even less likely than car people to put up with that.
And I think it looks cool, so that literally purely your opinion.
The design of the truck allows it to be produced for 40k and still have quite a bit of range. Those performance and price measures matter. Had they copied an F150 it would cost at least 50k and would not have as much range.
Tesla had to make conservative cars to establish themselves, but a revolutionary brands will not always just copy the competition, specially when trucks are on of the most uninspired markets where literally every vehicle is a copy of the other.
I wouldn't characterize Tesla's other cars as "conservative" in the slightest. "Conservative" makes me think of Volvo or Lexus. The Model S is absolutely gorgeous and if any car aficionado saw it, he would say, "that is an absolutely gorgeous car". It literally looks like a better Lamborghini, Ferrari, or Porsche. The Cybertruck provokes reactions somewhere on a spectrum between "what the fuck is that?" and "hmm, that's interesting". Which is roughly the same design space that the Pontiac Aztek, Chrysler PT Cruiser, and BMW i-Series inhabit. It's not fertile ground.
> It’s really damn cool aside from the roof coming to a point. I’m not sure I understand that design decision. However, onboard air compressor, 110v/220v accessory power, fast as shit, good ground clearance, integral bed cover and ramps, air ride suspension, and tough shell to boot... there is a lot to like here. I might just have to buy one in a couple years.
> Yeah because everyone wants a ‘bed’ you can’t load from the sides.
> I think [being able to load the truck bed from the sides] really only matters for people who use their trucks for actual work. This is obviously for people who want a truck for play and not work.
> ... he could have taken this seriously and actually made an impact. Now he’s proven the older anti EV crowd 100% correct that an electric truck isn’t a viable alternative.
> Clearly designed by someone who has literally never even used a truck once in their entire life.
> It's stupid tall bedsides ruin it for slide in campers too. If it wasn't for that the 3500lb payload and huge battery would make it great for a slide in.
> I'm surprised you all are not pouncing on the unibody. The other "truck" (Honda) that uses a unibody construction does not get much love.
> [People who like the Cybertruck design are] those who've never actually used a truck to haul items and/or trailers. Those who are in the ranching, mining, and other similar industries are laughing at this.
> Is the bed cover transparent? Seems like the rear window is only usable when the cover is retracted. I'm sorry. This is a truck for the Ridgeline crowd. No 8ft bed option. Only crew cab configuration. AWD, not 4WD. Can't tow a Gooseneck or 5th wheel, which you're gonna want when towing a 14K trailer. People will buy it. I won't.
> It’s a weird case of form over function. He was so focused on the blade runner vibe he forgot to make sure it was usable as a truck. Can’t even get to the front of the bed without opening the tailgate and getting inside.
> Trucks have a utilitarian purpose. There is a reason for their shapes. And if you look worldwide there are some differences, but also some commonalities. Like being able to access the frigging bed. That’s a massive failure here.
> There’s some things about truck design that are important to the function of being a truck. Like not having angled bed sides so you can fucking reach the first 1/2 of the bed without getting in it or being able to tow a 5th wheel.
> After looking at more pictures today I realized it doesn't even have a true 6.5' bed. It's much shorter than that, but angles in underneath the rear seats. Probably ok for hauling a few sheets of plywood, but putting in, say, furniture, would be harder.
> I set things in the bed over the bedside a lot. And climb in the sides. I’d have to awkwardly yeet shit over the side of that angled monstrosity
> This truck looks like an absolute nightmare to load and unload tbh. I actually even ditched my bed for a Bradford flatbed to make my truck easier to use. Rear/side visibility looks awful. Boasts a 14,000 towing capacity yet it looks like a nightmare to hook up to a trailer. I’d love to know how far this thing can tow 14,000lbs. Payload of “3,900lbs”. What does the truck itself weigh? Does Tesla understand GVWR or how to calculate payload or is it assuming it’s potential buyers do not? I guess I just don’t understand the whole concept and what exactly they’re going for. Seems like they’re trying to do too much. This has been the plague of these types of “crossovers” which is exactly what this is. El Camino, Ford Ranchero, Subaru Brat, Subaru Baja, Chevy Avalanche, Honda Ridgeline, the list goes on and on.
> Having a large locking cover would give me so much peace of mind when I'm parked with my tools in there. Having the thing build of stainless steel made me ask why hasn't trucks been main of stainless steel for years.
> The bed has some L-Tracks and T-Slots in it too for easy tie downs, which was something I learned from a video I saw that someone did a test drive in
> Literally the only good truck feature is the integrated full width ramp in the tailgate.
> And you can lower the suspension in the back to make it easier! I would have killed for that the last few times i was loading heavy equipment into the back of my truck by myself. I had to make due with backing up to a hill and using a shitty steel ramp that would fall if i so much as looked at it wrong.
> Let's be honest, most people in suburbia/cities with trucks are just drugstore cowboys anyway. This truck will meet the needs of most consumers
> Good luck towing a 5th wheel with that thing
> If you need a truck, Cybertruck's already disqualified itself. Little clearance, no room for mods, unibody, no side access to the truck bed, likely range issues (once you add a load), and that's just the stuff we know about now. I can only imagine buying this if you buy a truck just so you can feel like you're driving a truck but never plan on using the truck features beyond occasional off-roading.
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Trucks/comments/dzvqhx/tesla_truck/ [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/Trucks/comments/e061ru/style_contra...
Also, we are many to love the i3 look. It's a matter of tastes.
Range is good enough for daily driving, sure.
More than good enough performance? Subjective and debatable. I frequently hear about all the instant torque of an EV, but all it takes is a ride in a Leaf to learn that this really only applies to Teslas and the more sport-intended EVs. In other words, not the Leaf. Sure, the torque is still instant, but its...not a lot.
But the range...we need more 300+ mile EVs that support 150+ kW charging in order to overcome people's range anxiety for road trips, not to mention more 150+ kW chargers. I'm taking my Model 3 Performance on a 2,250 mile road trip later this year, and it'll be my first EV road trip. I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm feeling a little anxious about it. I've planned the crap out of my stops (Thanks to sites like ABRP), but still a little nervous. If I had a SR Model 3, I'd probably just say forget it and take my wife's CRV.
I know that if I buy an electric car that isn’t a Tesla, whenever that car bugs me, I will think ‘damn it, I wish I bought a Tesla’
But if I buy a Tesla, I’m not going to think it wish ‘I’d bought a leaf’
That’s just me. I don’t even have an electric car yet. But my name is down for the cybertruck.
I bought an used electric car with a tiny range to commute and every time I did long trips with it I wished I got a Tesla with a five times bigger battery.
But then I think about it, I do not regret not spending the money on a Model S, renting a long range car a few times a year, and buying a bigger flat with the money I saved.
Also, Supercharger v3 goes up to 250kW
7 kW.
Seven! What is the point of that?
It’s a totally different mind-set and usage pattern. Gas-like refills vs just topping off for free. Older EVs with smaller batteries that you charge all around town, vs newer Tesla’s that you supercharge like a fill-up. But 7kW can still give you 30 miles of range in an hour of shopping, plenty to get home somewhere in the suburbs even if you happen to be low already.
The only place a 7 kW charger should be considered acceptable is at home, a hotel, or the workplace. A supermarket where you're likely to only be parked up to an hour? Nah, that needs to be much more.
It's a lot of things, really. Range, performance, the hope of self-driving, the supercharging network (Which is much bigger than people think!), and of course, the fact that they look like normal cars. Most other EVs like the Leaf are either incredibly lacking in range and performance, or they're incredibly ugly like the BMW i3.
Then you've got cars like the Mullen Qiantu K50 [0] that try to be something special, but other than looks are incredibly lackluster and overpriced. $125K, and its performance and range are on par with a $48K Model 3 LR AWD. They're trying to brand it like a supercar, but it's only a supercar in the looks.
It's crazy to me that other makers can't even get charging done well. Most public CHAdeMO or CCS chargers are only up to 50 kW, while Tesla superchargers are usually 72 kW and sometimes up to 150 kW. Being able to charge quickly is a must when one of your biggest barriers to getting customers is overcoming their range anxiety.
[0] https://mullenusa.com/reserve-qiantu-k50/