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Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by pezo1919 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @12:42PM (#22129724)
Wait, is not that a bit recursive thought? To me it is a bit like: - Why? - Because you asked why.

Edit: - Because you don't know "fundamentally" why

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by RangerScience on Thursday January 23, 2020 @03:48PM (#22131828)
"Because you asked why" => "Because you don't already know" => "Because it's exhausting to have to explain this all the time" / "Because I want somewhere to practice, not just places to teach."

At least part of it is the same reason you might want to hang out with people already skilled in your disciplines: you get to go do the advanced stuff, instead of getting the other people up to speed.

Edit, presuming some things: You know how it's really annoying how all your non-tech relatives think you can solve all their weird tech problems, and you have to spend all this time explaining to them you why that's annoying, or why it's nice to hang out with people that don't do that?

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by pezo1919 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:09PM (#22132096)
Yeah, but in that case you can get the requirements, right? That's what is not clear to me here. And you did not clarify either. Why is that if you make it seem so simple?
Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by RangerScience on Thursday January 23, 2020 @09:12PM (#22134760)
(See branch for clarity)

What I think you're saying is that the requirements don't make sense to you, or that they bother you because you're thinking that they're not requirements you can meet.

IMO, you can at least meet the requirements in spirit.

AFAIK / IMO, most groups that defined themselves as for X or Y group are mostly doing two things: 1) They want to center the conversations around topics not normally in the center 2) They want to avoid issues that people from outside the group commonly have 2b) They want to avoid issues that people from outside the group commonly have when interacting people from inside the group.

#1 is pretty normal and maps well onto any group defined by common experiences. You succeed or fail at this pretty much the way you succeed or fail in any group. Join a ham radio group to talk about not ham radio, and when you don't have any interest in learning more about ham radio? Yeah. Good way to do this on the 'net is to lurk.

#2 is a a lot subtler and harder to hear, particularly when you're likely to have those common issues. Some of them are just communication styles: Ever seen a group of guys excitedly discuss something? Interruptions are the norm. Some are massively problematic even if they're rare, like harassment. Or situation specific, like asking the group to teach you enough for #1. Some groups like to educate newcomers so they can do #1, others just want to do #1 without that.

Resolving #1 takes learning, but resolving #2 takes training, and facing hard things. Both of these are resolvable through dedicated work. Go learn enough about the group that you have something worthwhile to add for #1, go learn enough about yourself and that group so you know what the common issues are, take a hard look at yourself to understand which you have, and then train yourself so you can avoid them.

Most groups (IMO) that define themselves as for A, and/or for excluding B, are doing so to save time, effort and risk. It's a cheap and reliable way to achieve #1 and #2.

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by pezo1919 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @09:22PM (#22134802)
"What I think you're saying is that the requirements don't make sense to you, or that they bother you because you're thinking that they're not requirements you can meet."

No, I am for requirements not against them. What are the requirements (or features) of the new platform which does not apply to HN - that is the question.

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by RangerScience on Thursday January 23, 2020 @10:31PM (#22135164)
Welp. My bad. Do you use Telegram? If so, why not go through the sign up process yourself, and explore?

Edit: OP says it's all about moderators: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22129710

Unclear to me if there's any encoded requirements.

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by pezo1919 on Friday January 24, 2020 @08:51AM (#22138195)
"OP says it's all about moderators" - okay, I see, thanks.
Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by RangerScience on Thursday January 23, 2020 @05:29PM (#22132984)
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you're saying on a grammatical level. Can you rephrase?
Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by pezo1919 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @06:03PM (#22133273)
Yeah, sorry, edited: I omitted the word "get"
Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by RangerScience on Thursday January 23, 2020 @07:34PM (#22134092)
Thanks! Hmm. I tried to answer but I'm still finding it unclear. Can you rephrase with less abstraction and more verbose specifics?

Edit: It might not clear what I'm not finding clear. It's not clear to me who you're referring to in the first sentence, or what "get" means in "get the requirements", or what you're referring to when you say "the requirements". It's not clear to me what the "that" is in "that's what's not clear to me". I don't understand what you thought I should have clarified but didn't. I'm not sure even how to begin approaching your last sentence.

I really do think that a more verbose rephrase would resolve all these.

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by pezo1919 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @07:47PM (#22134194)
"At least part of it is the same reason you might want to hang out with people already skilled in your disciplines: you get to go do the advanced stuff, instead of getting the other people up to speed."

In that case you can give "requirements" what is needed to work with you in your tempo, right?

What the discussion is about (at least to me) is not about the right of picking your people to go together with (ofc you can do that) but about the specific, concrete "requirements" which the "new platform" implements but HN does not.

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by RangerScience on Thursday January 23, 2020 @08:26PM (#22134466)
Thanks!

> In that case you can give "requirements" what is needed to work with you in your tempo, right?

This part is clear. Yes. I would give those requirements, although probably not with term - not like it's a job interview or something.

> What the discussion is about (at least to me)

This is clear.

> is not about the right of picking your people to go together with

This is not clear? It's a very convoluted sentence.

> but about the specific, concrete "requirements"

This is mostly clear. What do you see as the requirements being implemented by the new platform?

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by pezo1919 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @08:31PM (#22134501)
"What do you see as the requirements being implemented by the new platform?"

Yes, that should be my question for you! :)

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by lordCarbonFiber on Thursday January 23, 2020 @02:06PM (#22130639)
To put more concretely, I've observed, especaily among tech circles, the tendency to assume "if the system works for me, it must work for everyone". I'd propose that that kind of mindset is what is what drives a lot of the negative reactions in this thread. It's the kind of mindset that drives thoughts like "we;re not hiring many women it must be [their abilities | the funnel | ~biology~ | etc]" never "maybe our process isn't set up well". There;s value in having a space where you don't have to start every conversation explaining your struggles from first principles (very clearly given the user count the community has a need for this kind of space, so the "why is this needed" question feels spurious).

My thoughts from the uncomfortably unique prospective of a trans woman in tech; I can only speak for why I find these sorts of spaces valuable.

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by pezo1919 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @02:38PM (#22131001)
Thanks for this response! I think it might help me understanding.

However, there is a difference between "why" and "why", right? I do not question its "existence" (user count can prove that), but the reasons behind its being used - so I might be aware of things going on (user count itself can't add information about that).

Isn't that the case that people who want "some change" based on their (not too good) experiences - maybe sometimes they can't even recognize/express what they really need so accurately and what concrete things they are looking for - are likely to engage with new groups and norms which might just be a better experience for them - without any "formal requirements" and more like based on sensation? And the words/phrases/memes they "click on" are probably the same as other similar people "click on". And in that context "woman" might be an associative meme to these other memes: helpful, empathy, understanding, caring, respectful, misunderstood, minority. So explicitly using "woman" as a "meme" might be attractive to the people who are looking for or relate this other qualities/memes.

(I say woman as a "meme", because it's not for women only, so actually it seems to me it means more than its original meaning.)

This is just an idea how I can imagine what it MIGHT be about, any comment on that is welcome.

Re:Show HN: I built a community for women entrepreneurs and ... by theptip on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:05AM (#22136022)
Sure, you could frame it as recursive. Not infinitely, just one level (self-referential). I don’t think that is an argument against the point.