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Re:What is Rust and why is it so popular? by throwaway894345 on Tuesday January 21, 2020 @01:34PM (#22109903)
Rust is great and I'm really glad it exists; however, I'm skeptical that anyone ever "gets up to Python speed" or "gets up to Go speed", at least provided "speed" means "time to an acceptable result" and not "time to perfect" or "time to pacifying rustc". It's a laudable aim, but I don't think we're close. There's still a lot that Rust makes you think about that Python/Go/etc don't, such as memory management and lifetimes. Even if you are very good at thinking about those things, the cost isn't zero.

Of course, Rust gives you a lot in exchange for the reduced velocity--safety and performance; however, those are tradeoffs and we should talk about them as such. It feels dishonest to present Rust as "as productive as Python" even with the "(given enough experience)" caveat.

Re:What is Rust and why is it so popular? by steveklabnik on Tuesday January 21, 2020 @01:44PM (#22110005)
I feel like these days, provided there’s a library and I’m not writing stuff from scratch, I’m just as fast at Rust as I am with Ruby. I spent way more time debugging Ruby problems and fixing bugs than I pay upfront with Rust.

It really depends on how you measure productivity.

But also, I don’t think that “makes you think about memory” is that simple. I don’t have to think about memory in Rust very often at all: that’s what the compiler is for! When I make a mistake, it corrects me, and I’ve only thought about it for a few moments.

Re:What is Rust and why is it so popular? by throwaway894345 on Tuesday January 21, 2020 @03:34PM (#22111215)
Fully agree about "depends on how you measure"--that's kind of my thesis. If you're willing to trade iteration velocity to gain correctness, I would seriously consider Rust, but probably not if the value proposition was inverted.

> But also, I don’t think that “makes you think about memory” is that simple. I don’t have to think about memory in Rust very often at all: that’s what the compiler is for! When I make a mistake, it corrects me, and I’ve only thought about it for a few moments.

Ok, you don't think about it, but the back-and-forth with the compiler still takes a nonzero amount of time that you don't have to deal with in a GC language. At least not until you start to hit upon GC performance issues, at which point the value proposition shifts in Rust's favor, which ultimately brings me back to my point about it being an issue of tradeoffs and my skepticism about Rust-as-silver-bullet.

Re:What is Rust and why is it so popular? by crystaldev on Tuesday January 21, 2020 @02:32PM (#22110572)
> I pay upfront with Rust.

But you do pay up front! That's a big deal if your design is not set in stone (which is not a synonym for "prototyping").

Re:What is Rust and why is it so popular? by steveklabnik on Tuesday January 21, 2020 @03:07PM (#22110940)
I also think this is not a simple question; Rust’s rules provide critical feedback during that early phase. It’s valuable when getting started too. The prototype phase may last slightly longer, but I end up much closer to the final design with its help.

(Again, as always, YMMV.)