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Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by JMr3c376 on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:12PM (#22087661)
... iTunes became a bucket of too many features, so apple split it up into multiple applications. Apple music is pretty much exactly the same as iTunes was without a bunch of non-music related features. It's silly to say ~"iTunes died" it just changed names.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by ProfessorLayton on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:23PM (#22088104)
This is so incredibly true and particularly frustrating on iOS where the music player + Apple Music is a complete UX mess. There are so many features that everything os buried under more and more menus. On top of that it is riddled with bugs!
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by Nextgrid on Saturday January 18, 2020 @07:42PM (#22088535)
The Music app became a complete disaster on iOS. Now it's one thing if they want to kill their new streaming service due to bad UX, but the problem is that the stand-alone music app also suffered.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by wtmt on Sunday January 19, 2020 @12:20AM (#22089630)
> It's silly to say ~"iTunes died" it just changed names.

I don’t agree at all. While iTunes was feature rich and relatively stable, the replacements are relatively feature poor and quite unstable. Apple should’ve taken another year to introduce the replacements.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by pixelrevision on Sunday January 19, 2020 @09:12AM (#22091504)
“relatively stable” You didn’t use itunes much did you?
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by kalleboo on Sunday January 19, 2020 @01:11AM (#22089755)
It could have been much, much worse. They could have ported over the iOS Music app.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by pmullins on Sunday January 19, 2020 @04:34AM (#22090411)
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they did. My understanding is that they based the macOS version on the iOS version. Explains quite a bit.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by kalleboo on Sunday January 19, 2020 @07:12AM (#22090980)
The macOS Catalina Music app is very much still based on iTunes. It still supports AppleScript, the preferences dialog is still a modal, it retains a bunch of subtle (not always desired) behavior in stuff like metadata edit autocomplete and multiple window support, etc, it even has the ancient legacy visualizer, it's all still iTunes.

The Podcasts/TV/Books apps that got split out OTOH I believe are all iOS ports

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by chmaynard on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:13PM (#22088058)
> Apple music is pretty much exactly the same as iTunes was without a bunch of non-music related features.

Hmm, not really. I took a brief look at the UI during the Catalina beta and concluded that I wanted nothing to do with it. I have spent years learning how to use iTunes well. I'm not about to throw away that investment of time and energy on a new, untested app with a different UI. I'll stick with iTunes to manage my music library. Catalina will have to wait, probably forever.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by tzs on Saturday January 18, 2020 @10:00PM (#22089098)
For a long time the only interface in iTunes that I've really liked was the Column Browser interface. That's remained available throughout the various changes in iTunes and now in Music over the years, but disappeared in Catalina.

Fortunately, that disappearance was only temporary. It returned in 10.15.2.

Select "Songs" in the left sidebar, and a "Column Browser" submenu will be added to the View menu. Turn it on (⌘B), and you get a nice, no-nonsense, high information density view of your collection, letting you quickly filter by genre, artist, and album. Right click on a column heading and you can add columns for composer and grouping or remove columns.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by pmullins on Sunday January 19, 2020 @04:37AM (#22090426)
FYI, The column browser interface is back in the Music app as of the 10.15.3 Beta.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by wwweston on Saturday January 18, 2020 @08:24PM (#22088695)
> I'm not about to throw away that investment of time and energy on a new, untested app with a different UI.

Come on, now. Think of the poor product managers, the struggling UX researchers and designers. How are they going to make their careers off of minor upgrades tied down to past investments of users?

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by zentiggr on Saturday January 18, 2020 @09:19PM (#22088924)
Jean-Baptiste Emannuel Zorg, channeled here... I'll be ready to pound your back when you choke on that cherry :)
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by chmaynard on Sunday January 19, 2020 @06:26AM (#22090813)
When I was working at Apple, some of us had a saying: "Apple knows what you need, and we're going to give it to you – good and hard."
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by sysbin on Saturday January 18, 2020 @07:05PM (#22088349)
The new UI in Catalina is worse. You cannot view other albums when you have an album open, instead you have to click a button to go back for viewing all the albums again. I also think the music app takes way too much space of the screen for what it needs shown to function. Apple must not have anyone seriously working on it.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by WWLink on Saturday January 18, 2020 @08:40PM (#22088751)
Speaking of that, iTunes Radio and Apple Music are TERRIBLE guis! The web-based column views are really limited and crappy. You can do so much better with web GUIs if you want to, but Apple just wanted to waste a ton of screen space.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by m463 on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:47PM (#22087915)
Probably just became to unweildy for the developers and they split it out.

I can't imagine successfully staffing a giant monolithic application. I think it would be hard to get job satisfaction working on a tiny piece of an app with decades of cruft.

Most apps like this are several orders of magnitude larger than say, the linux kernel.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by unlinked_dll on Saturday January 18, 2020 @10:42PM (#22089291)
I can't imagine how a music player became such a monolithic application in the first place...

But I mean that's not true. I suspect the reason it was such a behemoth was because Apple wanted it to be the gateway and gatekeeper to both acquiring media and transferring it to the device.

Like Spotify manages to do quite well for itself without being the monstrosity that iTunes became. I'd guess that the foundation of Apple's garden walls is also the source of their technical debt.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by Ididntdothis on Saturday January 18, 2020 @08:11PM (#22088641)
They totally destroyed the audiobooks feature. Can't edit ID3, no playlists with Catalina. It's hard to believe how they could destroy it so thoroughly.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by xnyan on Saturday January 18, 2020 @10:57PM (#22089356)
First, I agree with you - it's bullshit they took away the features they did.

That said, of all the people you know in the Apple ecosystem, how many people know/do the following: know what an id3 tag is, manage the metadata of their digital audio content, listen to audiobooks. Maybe I'm wrong, but most non-nerds I know don't and would not ever want to think about 1 and 2. Plenty of people who fall into 3, but again all people who don't like or work in tech that I know use audible or the public library or some other service.

I like so much about Apple products, but my big and growing fear is that my needs and the needs of the kind of person who edits ID3 tags are constantly being subsumed by the much larger portion of their customer base that has no need and no desire be involved in anything like editing file metadata.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by Ididntdothis on Saturday January 18, 2020 @11:15PM (#22089425)
To some degrees I understand but I think this a dangerous path. The Mac is a tool for creators and professionals so if they make the Mac into an iPad then people will just buy iPads. Maybe that’s what Apple wants but I think it’s very dangerous to drive away the people who made you successful.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by thirdsun on Friday January 24, 2020 @05:54AM (#22137017)
> That said, of all the people you know in the Apple ecosystem, how many people know/do the following: know what an id3 tag is, manage the metadata of their digital audio content, listen to audiobooks.

You could say the same thing about using the Terminal.app - removing everything but the most widely and commonly used features is a foolish strategy. The sum of all niche audiences still makes up a significant user base.

That said, even as someone that carefully maintains a rather large and growing local music collection I'd almost agree with you and be fine with a stripped down Apple Music app since anyone serious about that interest probably uses one of the superior and more in-depth music management options out there. However iTunes/Apple Music is still required to sync that music to your iOS device. So while I'd have no problem completely replacing iTunes/Music.app with any of the more feature-complete options I can't. I have to use it, even if it's just for syncing and apparently it has lost quite a few features since Catalina (haven't upgraded yet).

In other words: If Apple doesn't care about the kind of users that maintains a local music library they shouldn't hold them hostage by only allowing to sync said library via their otherwise barebone app. It just means I have to manage my content in 2 locations.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by mercer on Sunday January 19, 2020 @07:22AM (#22091028)
The vast majority of developers that I know use macs. And not just web developers. That's got to be a sizable userbase, considering that a growing number of non-devs that I know use crappy laptops and instead use their phones for most of their digital needs.

Of course I have no idea if this is reflected in the world-wide breakdown of Mac users, but I'd be surprised if the 'programmer' category isn't sizable enough that it's kind of silly (in a typical Apple way) to ignore them.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by xnyan on Sunday January 19, 2020 @03:38PM (#22093885)
My anecdotal experience is my Mac loyal programmer friends are switching to linux or windows unless they are developing for iOS. Anecdotes are worth what they’re worth, the data says Apple’s market share is holding more or less steady at 7-8%.

It’s hard for me to believe that Apple is or even can dedicate the resources I want want to the laptop/desktop line when iPhones alone make 80% of their revenue. I’ve mostly switched to linux with a windows box when needed.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by naravara on Saturday January 18, 2020 @09:00PM (#22088839)
I do feel like They’re having some trouble with the UX though since it has to juggle 3 kinds of file management.

You’ve got the obvious “manage my music files on this device” part. Then you’ve got the “manage my music files as part of this iCloud library” part. Then you’ve got “stream music from the subscription service” part. It’s actually quite hard to make playlists and stuff since, over time, people start to lose track of what form they have the rights to any particular song.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by dzhiurgis on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:42PM (#22087888)
Uses same 1gig of ram and misses some key features like proper track search. Go figure how it’s an improvement...
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by Nextgrid on Saturday January 18, 2020 @07:43PM (#22088540)
I know certain parts of iTunes including Apple Music are web apps. Could it be that the entire new Music app is just a web app (using their own implementation of an Electron equivalent)? That would explain the memory usage.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by madeofpalk on Saturday January 18, 2020 @08:05PM (#22088614)
My understanding is that they're kind of web pages. Rather than HTML/CSS/JS, they have custom elements that are rendered from the server markup.
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by tambourine_man on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:49PM (#22087934)
>proper track search

Please explain. What is is missing? I find that it works pretty well. Is was one of its main selling point at the time and its interface spread throughout the OS: Finder, Spotlight, System Preferences, etc

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by dzhiurgis on Sunday January 19, 2020 @01:58AM (#22089893)
New search field now return album covers (yuck). Old list search feature is now under View > Show Filter Field. Disappears after app restarts...
Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by tambourine_man on Sunday January 19, 2020 @07:45AM (#22091151)
You can change that. I configured it to work as it used to.

I use it as the old 2000s versions, no album cover stuff

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by dzhiurgis on Tuesday January 21, 2020 @04:40AM (#22105507)
Please, how?

I was just browsing my library today and it's a tragedy how bad it got...

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by tambourine_man on Sunday January 26, 2020 @03:46PM (#22154671)
Sorry for the late reply. That's iTunes on Mojave. https://imgur.com/a/0DJml25

Haven't made the jump to Catalina just yet. Mostly because of Sizzling Keys (control iTunes from system wide keyboard shortcuts)

I think the trick is to set “filter by all” on the search field, but there might be some other preference setting somewhere.

Re:What the death of iTunes says about digital habits by morpheuskafka on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:05PM (#22088013)
Not to mention, the standalone iTunes Store is still called that, although it is certainly less successful now that Apple Music (the service, not the app) is available. And there is as of yet no plan to move away from the iTunes app on Windows.