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Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by macinjosh on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:27PM (#22087354)
There are millions of miles of roads just in the US that will never have that sort of infrastructure because the cost of keeping beacons running and marking in place would be astronomical. Sure maybe California will have some of that around big population areas but that's probably about it.

What happens to all these markings when it snows a couple centimeters?'

Fully self driving cars won't happen in our lifetime, probably not this century.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by _red on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:54PM (#22087554)
its not only lines on the road though:

Imagine you are following a pickup-truck and out of the back an obviously empty box floats out of the bed and lands directly in front of your car.

For a human its trivial to know the box is empty and its ok to hit it....does "AI" know that?

Multiply that case x1000 and you have the conditions self-driving cars will need to handle on a daily basis.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by ogre_codes on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:41PM (#22088205)
If someone drives around with loose crap in the back of their truck that flies out, the truck driver is at fault not the self driving car. This is a danger we already have on the road.

Humans make the wrong call on this sort of thing all the time. They also make stupid passes, yield the right of way at the wrong time, drive the wrong way down one way streets, cut each other off, fall asleep at the wheel, drive drunk, drive without their glasses on, get road rage, etc etc etc.

There is this sort of one-way lens when it comes to self driving cars. People want to throw up red flags about all things they might do wrong while ignoring the millions of stupid things that humans do to kill each other with cars every single day.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by cjbillington on Saturday January 18, 2020 @10:00PM (#22089099)
I don't think it's super relevant who is at fault, I care what the consequences are.

"It's ok if I get into an accident - it will be the other guy's fault" is only the right reasoning if you're talking on the individual level about about monetary costs of an accident only. If you're talking about injury, or if you're talking about the cost to society as a whole, they are bad consequences regardless of whose fault the accident is.

I think the actual answer is that self-driving cars will end up doing a good enough (i.e. at least human-level but not perfect) job of not wildly swerving or braking to avoid harmless objects like floating plastic bags that this won't be a concern.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by blattimwind on Sunday January 19, 2020 @08:57AM (#22091435)
> I don't think it's super relevant who is at fault, I care what the consequences are.

> "It's ok if I get into an accident - it will be the other guy's fault"

Exactly. Most accidents take two people to happen, one who makes a mistake and at least one more who could have prevented the accident as well. For example, when right of way is ignored by someone in a left yield right situation, no accident happens if the one with right of way brakes in time. Or, if someone fails to merge in time and runs out of road, someone else can prevent an accident by braking a little.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by macinjosh on Saturday January 18, 2020 @07:48PM (#22088555)
Right, except no one is claiming humans are perfect drivers but I have heard self driving car evangelists say countless times that self driving cars are going to bring an end to traffic deaths.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by fastball on Sunday January 19, 2020 @02:26PM (#22093365)
They will bring an end to avoidable traffic deaths caused by driving. They obviously will not prevent deaths caused by things falling out of trucks.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by holoduke on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:04PM (#22088008)
I think I can write a script what is able to recognize the exact weight of the flying object. I will calculate the rate of falling based on different observation like airfriction, rotation speed, speed decrease etc. With my model I can extract a probability number which I use to make a decision. Easy job. Opencv, tensor flow, some tracker software and php and of course a 16k 4000fps 3d camera will do the job. I am kidding. You are right.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by smileysteve on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:14PM (#22087674)
> For a human its trivial to know the box is empty and its ok to hit it....does "AI" know that?

This is a great anecdote that definitely needs a source to back it up.

Primarily, there are a significant number of single vehicle accidents caused by drivers jerking the wheel instead of acting in a calm manner.

Secondly, there are many cases where a box is not safe to ignore; that could mean it damaging a fog light, a large staple in it hitting a tire, or it getting stuck somewhere, temporary loss of traction or visibility.

In conclusion; anything on the road should be treated as something to avoid, but definitely something to avoid a high speed collision with.

Other Anecdotes to consider: The first model S firs was caused by a trailer hitch in the road. Hammer hit a model 3. Asphalt coming loose in slabs and hitting a driver. Mattresses and ice from the roof in front of you. Tldr; There are many accidents that do happen with human drivers.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by _greim_ on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:25PM (#22087753)
> For a human its trivial...

I anecdotally question this based on both personal experience and stories I've heard. It seems like it would be a hard problem for both humans and AIs, however AIs have the edge in the long run due to sheer processing speed.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by e_y_ on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:16PM (#22088072)
AI also has a lot of training data. Humans are highly adaptable but most of us have limited experience with situations like hydroplaning, sudden tire failure, etc.

Also self-driving cars could have better sensors that don't have blind spots, and the multitasking ability to monitor all of them at once.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by timidiceball on Sunday January 19, 2020 @11:08AM (#22092103)
I always felt the film minority report was onto something with regard to this: the vehicles depicted in the movie are (non-optionally) self-driving within dense urban regions and drivable by humans in the country