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Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by jefftk on Saturday January 18, 2020 @01:39PM (#22086120)
I looked into the complexity of games a few years ago, approximating this as the number of bytes needed to implement the rules as a program: https://www.jefftk.com/p/simplest-interesting-game

Bottom line numbers:

    280 gomoku
    356 hex
    483 dots and boxes
    572 go
    622 checkers
Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by CydeWeys on Saturday January 18, 2020 @01:42PM (#22086150)
This is awesome!

Any idea where Chess would stack up? I'm assuming it'd be greater than Checkers in that list, but how much greater? And would Nim be simpler than Gomoku (Connect-N)?

Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by jdkee on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:04PM (#22088006)
Checkout Oscar Toledo’s nanochess for tiny chess implementations.

https://nanochess.org/chess.html

Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by jefftk on Saturday January 18, 2020 @01:49PM (#22086208)
If you or someone else would like to have a go at writing one I'd be happy to review and add it!

https://github.com/jeffkaufman/game-complexity

Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by CydeWeys on Saturday January 18, 2020 @02:08PM (#22086354)
Nice.

I wonder, would it make sense to encode the idea of a square and hex grid with pieces of two different colors as a library of sorts, such that this basic grid implementation doesn't count against each game individually? The boards are very widely reused, generic, mathematical concepts. This would give something like Go or Connect-N a fairer shot of competing against something like a Nim, which only needs a single integer accumulator to represent its game state.

Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by jefftk on Saturday January 18, 2020 @02:18PM (#22086410)
The compressed Go program gets only 2.3% smaller post-gzip (13 bytes) if you remove the definition of the board: b=[[' ']*19 for x in range(19)]

Most of the complexity is in what changes players are allowed to make to the board.

Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by DavidSJ on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:42PM (#22087031)
Note that there are some rule sets in which suicide is legal, so long as it doesn’t violate a generalized ko rule (no repeated board positions, considering whose turn it is as part of the position).
Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by jefftk on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:57PM (#22087147)
I implemented the Tromp-Taylor rules (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Computer_Go/Tromp-Taylor_Rules) which have "A turn is either a pass; or a move that doesn't repeat an earlier grid coloring." Since it doesn't consider whose turn it is to move in whether a grid coloring is repeated, it won't allow suicide.
Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by thaumasiotes on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:40PM (#22087872)
The prohibition on matching any earlier state of the board makes playing the game significantly more complex in reality, but not in terms of how many bits it takes to describe the rules.

Have you considered defining the complexity in terms of the number of bits required to implement the game, and not just the ruleset? Go requires a potentially very large list of past board states.

Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by CydeWeys on Sunday January 19, 2020 @02:20PM (#22093322)
The amount of memory used in the execution of the program doesn't seem as important, and biases against games played on larger boards for no real reason. At the extreme end, you'd say that Conway's Game of Life takes infinite memory and is thus of infinite complexity because it occurs on an unbounded board, yet, the actual rules are very small and simple to implement.
Re:Questions I would ask God about the game of Go by baq on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:33PM (#22086967)
Kolmogorov complexity for games. Neat.