Re:A new obstacle to landing a job after college: getting ap...
by perl4ever on Saturday January 18, 2020 @01:41PM
(#22086138)
According to Purdue, the first computer science department in the US was established there in 1962, so of course in 1960 IBM wasn't that selective - they couldn't hire CS graduates. Maybe math majors.
Also, I don't know when CS degrees became common among programmers, but it didn't happen right after they were invented, I'm sure.
Re:A new obstacle to landing a job after college: getting ap...
by thaumasiotes on Saturday January 18, 2020 @01:50PM
(#22086212)
Did anything in the material I quoted, or in the remainder of either article, refer to CS degrees or CS graduates?
Re:A new obstacle to landing a job after college: getting ap...
by perl4ever on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:40PM
(#22088201)
It's an example of conventional attributes which didn't exist then because the whole field was unformed. It seems like that would inhibit specialized aptitude tests - if you're hiring math or whatever majors back then (not that it doesn't happen today) you can't ask them about linked lists or sorting algorithms.
Not to mention, a vast number of people who could be good programmers wouldn't have had access to a computer before a first programming job, even if they had a college degree. Today it's much safer to assume that if someone is any good, they will have been exposed.
Re:A new obstacle to landing a job after college: getting ap...
by thaumasiotes on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:43PM
(#22088214)
But nobody's talking about interviews that ask for conventionalized CS material. The point is that the interview questions are more difficult. They aren't especially more computer-focused.
Re:A new obstacle to landing a job after college: getting ap...
by perl4ever on Saturday January 18, 2020 @07:09PM
(#22088366)
I wasn't asked more difficult questions in 2007, when I got my first programming job. Several years on, we had some discussions about what kind of questions to ask candidates. One place I applied to more recently had a flowchart reading test that must have been from the punched card era.
So I don't concede the point, anyway.
But, the examples above definitely do compare more and less computer focused things.
https://elaineou.com/2017/03/10/technical-interviews-from-th...
> 2. A bill for 5 typewriter ribbons and 24 pencils totalled $9.85. If a typewriter ribbon costs $1.25, what is the price of a dozen pencils?
> The IBM Programmer Aptitude Test is from 1960 (? I think. It’s tough to read the date on the mimeograph). Is it just me or have technical interviews gotten much harder?
> I interviewed for a programmer job at Facebook several years ago, and one of the questions I got was, “Given a set of obstacle coordinates, write a function that finds the shortest path between two cells for a knight on a 3-D chessboard while avoiding the obstacles.”
> I remember this question because it was one of the few that I managed to solve. Probably a half-dozen others ended in fumbles. Not surprisingly, Facebook didn’t give me an offer.
https://elaineou.com/2017/08/26/the-mystery-of-the-vanishing...
> Some time ago, we compared technical interviews from the 1960s to those of today: They’ve gotten much, much harder. I suggested that the last few decades of lax immigration have invited overseas talent to raise the bar – it was unfounded speculation at the time, but some number crunching shows it might be true.
> According to this Joint Venture Silicon Valley report, 74% of Silicon Valley tech workers are foreign-born immigrants. A decade ago, 36% of Silicon Valley tech workers were born abroad. In 2000, only 29% were.
> Tech industry employment has increased from about 300,000 jobs in 2007 to 400,000 in 2016, so even though we created 100,000 engineering positions in the last decade, we’ve also displaced 88,000 domestic engineers.
I'm suddenly curious what other fields are staffed by 74% foreign-born immigrants.