Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois

Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by zionic on Friday January 17, 2020 @06:20PM (#22080699)

The entire idea is preposterous. The solution to affordable housing is oversupply of housing. Gov should incentivize new construction to reduce prices and let the market fix it.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by tmh79 on Friday January 17, 2020 @09:08PM (#22081698)

Strong disagree, the solution to affordable housing includes a very large amount of private/free market housing, but the free market won't really address the needs of people below 30% of the median income. Additionally, good affordable housing is one of the best anti poverty tools that we have. IMO the long term solution is robust private market housing construction for the middle class, and a robust public housing construction system for those who truly need it.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by barry-cotter on Friday January 17, 2020 @10:12PM (#22081980)

> the free market won't really address the needs of people below 30% of the median income.

It will if it’s not illegal to build. SROs are illegal. Boarding houses are illegal. Houses below a certain minimum are are illegal.

https://www.economist.com/special-report/2020/01/16/what-is-...

> From 2013 to 2017, Tokyo built many houses as the whole of England.

> House prices in Tokyo are now 9% lower than they were in 2000, while in London they are 144% higher, adjusted for inflation.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by micmil on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:47PM (#22082349)

Anyone using Japan as an example of housing prices does not understand Japanese housing.

Zoning in Japan is done at a national level, not local. Once an area is designated for housing, housing goes there. Because of this there is a constant flow of new housing, which drives the price of old houses down.

This is not possible anywhere zoning is done at a local level. Anytime one person has the ability to stop another from building you immediately create NIMBYdom and where the NIMBY exists, more housing does not because the NIMBY cares about nothing but their own property value. But that also feeds into the insane American idea of housing as an investment rather than a place to keep birds from crapping on you.

Until the NIMBY is eliminated, and housing is no longer sold as an investment, housing costs will not go down.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by Redoubts on Saturday January 18, 2020 @08:12AM (#22084243)

So why can’t we use Japan as an example? That seems like a laundry list of good ideas.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by leppr on Saturday January 18, 2020 @12:13AM (#22082449)

> the free market won't really address the needs of people below 30% of the median income.

Why? Do you think a poor person's vote is worth more to the government than their wallet would be to a house builder?

Is it impossible to make an acceptable house at 30% the cost of a median earner's house?

Your reasoning is valid for people whose productivity approaches zero, in which case welfare can indeed be needed. But the current housing problem is systematic and touches a far bigger percent of the population, and thus shouldn't be solved with charity.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by generatorguy on Saturday January 18, 2020 @01:33AM (#22082771)

Imagine you are a property developer. You borrow money to buy land and want to build as many housing units on that land as you are allowed to and sell them for as much as you can. Buying granite counter tops in bulk and selling the housing units as luxury is going to make you a lot more than trying to cater to the bottom of the market, so nobody does, unless forced.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by dodobirdlord on Saturday January 18, 2020 @02:12AM (#22082902)

Do it enough times and there will be an oversupply of such housing, pushing price down to the cost of land + construction. With no profit margin at that price developers will target higher and lower price points. The solution is always just more construction.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by formerchamp on Friday January 17, 2020 @09:29PM (#22081790)

Public housing is a complete failure and the epicenter of violence in every city. Name a current project in ANY big city you'd raise your family in?

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by zokula on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:48AM (#22083254)

Gemeindebau in Vienna Austria.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by kelnos on Friday January 17, 2020 @08:08PM (#22081416)

The problem is that in most areas the government is primarily voted in by existing landowners, who don't want more housing, and don't care if lower-income renters are being forced out.

The non-landowners are either not abundant enough, or only plan to live here for a short enough period of time that they don't bother to get involved in local politics.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by vineyardmike on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:09PM (#22082200)

While this is the whole "NIMBY" thing... is that really a problem? No one complains that Americans can't vote in Britains elections, to set their laws. The whole point of voting is that the people who actively live there get to decide what happens to their city.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by micmil on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:48PM (#22082355)

Yes, that's a problem. Nobody that bought a home on the vague notion that they HAVE to make money off of it when they sell it will ever vote to have a homeless shelter built across the road.

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Re:Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? by kelnos on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @10:56PM (#22124704)

I think the cause and effect is intertwined. Many of the people who now plan to only stay for a few years have that attitude because they feel disenfranchised and locked out of the planning process, while at the same time being priced out of the ability to put down roots.

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