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Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by cambalache on Friday January 17, 2020 @01:53PM (#22077838)
Correct, all the assumed authority of the author flew out of the window as I read that sentence.
Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by LameRubberDucky on Friday January 17, 2020 @02:56PM (#22078532)
All? A person can have an incorrect view while still maintaining other correct views.
Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by loco5niner on Friday January 17, 2020 @04:19PM (#22079451)
True, but you tend to question their statements much more now.
Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by chupa-chups on Friday January 17, 2020 @02:38PM (#22078344)
Could you explain why you think this?

Programming is 75-90% repetition of patterns. The remaining 10-15% are the difference between a simple translation of usual human language into a foreign language vs. developing algorithms and/or logic to solve a problem.

If we can get rid of the non-algorithm, non-logic part we'd be better off, and this is what i read into this sentence.

Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by msla on Friday January 17, 2020 @04:26PM (#22079530)
New learners are suspicious, if they're any good.

Look at this snippet of Java:

    public static void main(String[] args)
You have to put that exactly in every Java program. Why? What does it mean? Why can't I omit it?

To answer all of those questions, you need to go into method visibility, the difference between static and instance methods (itself easily requiring the teacher to introduce the concept of 'state' and what OO is at a basic level), types and the notion of a "void" type, and odd historical baggage which prompts the JVM to look for 'main' as a special, magical name. You haven't even gotten to "Hello, world!" and you have to unpack at least a lecture's worth of knowledge into the poor sap's head.

It's a lot easier to have a language where you type commands and the machine follows them. Even fundamentally bad languages, like GW-BASIC (my first language), have a hypnotic power over young programmers simply by virtue of that immediate response.

Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by chupa-chups on Friday January 17, 2020 @04:33PM (#22079612)
This is what is said. So why do you appear to oppose?

Programming today still means 85%-90% doing repetitive stuff. Tools could do away with this, freeing the developer/engineer to spend more time on solving actual problems.

If you oppose to this, please state the reason why, since I'm probably fogged.

To be more clear, I don't propose to make programming easier. I do propose to make so-called "programming" go away, to focus on the actual problem-solving part. "Programming" to me means mostly translating requirements into code (without having to deal with decomposing and recombining requirements, which is the real work).

Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by msla on Friday January 17, 2020 @07:42PM (#22081289)
> Programming today still means 85%-90% doing repetitive stuff.

But some languages have more than others, which is why they're bad teaching languages.

That's my point.

> To be more clear, I don't propose to make programming easier. I do propose to make so-called "programming" go away, to focus on the actual problem-solving part. "Programming" to me means mostly translating requirements into code (without having to deal with decomposing and recombining requirements, which is the real work).

Translating requirements into code is programming. Reducing boilerplate isn't making programming go away.

Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by brutt on Friday January 17, 2020 @06:06PM (#22080567)
> It's a lot easier to have a language where you type commands and the machine follows them.

It's known as "shell". It's opposite to programming.

Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by TeMPOraL on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:26AM (#22083610)
No, it's known as a Read-Eval-Print Loop, or REPL.

"Shell" is a kind of REPL for a kind of language, both being optimized to minimize typing required to execute commands and string them together in a pipe. It's good at its job, but it's poor general REPL. Proper programming REPLs are very powerful and very useful tools, to the point I'm pretty unhappy when I have to work in a language without one.

Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by bryanrasmussen on Friday January 17, 2020 @04:19PM (#22079455)
repetition of patterns is the easy part, so getting rid of the easy part and leaving the difficult part might not make much difference in the end. Especially as the easy part can be an access point to the more complicated.
Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by chupa-chups on Friday January 17, 2020 @04:47PM (#22079779)
Still it takes easily 50% of the time available for actual coding, even using modern IDEs.
Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by bryanrasmussen on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:12PM (#22087247)
And meetings take the other 50% of time available. I know what I want to get rid of.
Re:Startup Ideas 2020 by wolco on Friday January 17, 2020 @10:52PM (#22082142)
Use a framework and/or abstract your patterns.