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Re:A Sad Day for Rust by TheRealDunkirk on Friday January 17, 2020 @10:38AM (#22075508)
Seems like there should have been some sort of response from the maintainer about the _philosophy_ of why he was doing things the was he was, and people could either get onboard with the connecting points of that, or get lost. So far, in all of this drama, I have yet to see where any of that might have been explained. I don't use Rust, but I understand the significance of the experiment, and I think I for one, would have liked to read the author's thoughts about "why."
Re:A Sad Day for Rust by lallysingh on Friday January 17, 2020 @10:42AM (#22075560)
Why is the maintainer responsible for that? They're just another dev who wrote something that became popular.

It's almost like watching lottery winners having their lives ruined.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by TheRealDunkirk on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:02AM (#22075762)
> Why is the maintainer responsible for that?

It just seems to me that there's a give-and-take to being the maintainer of a popular open source project. You get help on the project in the form of people contributing patches, right? Doesn't simple human curtesy and a modicum of wisdom suggest that you should explain your rationale in accepting or rejecting them, to manage expectations, so that it doesn't end up like this? I know, I know. I'm taking my crazy pills again. Sorry.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by ncallaway on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:26AM (#22076016)
> It just seems to me that there's a give-and-take to being the maintainer of a popular open source project.

Sounds like a whole lotta give to me...

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by xscott on Friday January 17, 2020 @01:32PM (#22077616)
> You get help on the project in the form of people contributing patches, right?

It seems like you're trying to make it seem like there is always a legitimate exchange, and so they owe you something. Some projects want help, others don't. In the latter case, it's just a gift from the author, and they don't owe you anything.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by munificent on Friday January 17, 2020 @01:59PM (#22077921)
> You get help on the project in the form of people contributing patches, right?

Any open source maintainer will tell you that many PRs, even well-intentioned ones, end up being a net negative. Often they don't further the maintainers aims, they need detailed review, take sometimes a lot of effort to manage the communication tactfully, etc.

Yes, many PRs are a win and it can be really gratifying seeing your project become bigger and better than you could have made on its own.

But also, many PRs are just a chore and a hassle.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by amyjess on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:20AM (#22075960)
And this is why I honestly don't ever want to release an open-source project.

At the very least, I'm not going to make it easy for people to contribute. I'll keep the git repo private, go without a ticketing system, and just post tarballs full of code on a self-hosted website (I guess like the NetHack team used to do before 3.6, but they had a ticketing system, and I wouldn't). Maybe I'll even use a non-free license just to reinforce my "you take what you can get" policy.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by pjc50 on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:30AM (#22076074)
Why? I mean, if you're that hostile to collaboration, why not just keep it closed source and maybe try to charge for it?
Re:A Sad Day for Rust by xscott on Friday January 17, 2020 @01:43PM (#22077727)
If I write something useful, I'm willing to share it with people when I can. It makes me happy knowing I contributed something that might make the world a smidge better.

That doesn't mean I'm willing to accept your patch. As soon as I accept collaboration, I need to worry about copyright on the contributions, whether they follow my coding style, and whether I'm willing to accept additional complexity for features I don't care about.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by wolfgke on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:38AM (#22076169)
> Why? I mean, if you're that hostile to collaboration, why not just keep it closed source and maybe try to charge for it?

- There exist open source licenses (with copyleft) that disallow making it closed source.

- There exist other reasons to publish the source code: for example allowing the user to study it.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by amyjess on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:46AM (#22076285)
Python is my language of choice, so posting projects means publishing the source code.
Re:A Sad Day for Rust by wolrah on Friday January 17, 2020 @01:07PM (#22077348)
> Python is my language of choice, so posting projects means publishing the source code.

Technically you could just post the .pyc bytecode as long as you didn't care about it working on anything but CPython and compatible implementations.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by JanisL on Saturday January 18, 2020 @02:07AM (#22082881)
This might make it a bit harder for someone but wouldn't really stop people from reverse engineering it.
Re:A Sad Day for Rust by rectang on Friday January 17, 2020 @12:14PM (#22076661)
> Maybe I'll even use a non-free license just to reinforce my "you take what you can get" policy.

Consider CC0 instead.

As a veteran open source contributor, I totally understand that dealing with open source communities has a huge cost to go with the huge benefit. Even just vetting patches can be a pain when you care about security and architecture and don't want to spend time endlessly explaining your choices.

CC0 allows you to provide maximum benefit should you opt out of "social coding". People can go ahead and fork your stuff, or just use bits and pieces, without needing to deal with licensing or crediting headaches. (Significant consumers still have to track provenance, though.)

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by juped on Friday January 17, 2020 @12:59PM (#22077263)
Please don't blindly attempt dedication of your works to the public domain based on this comment.
Re:A Sad Day for Rust by rectang on Friday January 17, 2020 @01:05PM (#22077331)
What is your objection? Do we have a disagreement about licensing, for instance because you'd advocate a copyleft license instead? Or do you disagree with the notion that open source contributors should have the option of opting out of social coding?

Certainly I would expect amyjess and anyone else reading to exercise due skepticism and perform their own research and I respect them enough to expect that they will "consider" my suggestion rather than "blindly" follow it.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by juped on Friday January 17, 2020 @04:57PM (#22079884)
I think people shouldn't ill-informedly attempt to waive their legal rights, especially not in ways that are legally murky, and I think people shouldn't ill-informedly encourage others to waive legal rights in murky ways they may not be aware of. You didn't even mention "public domain" once and implied "CC0" was a form of license, despite attempting a public domain dedication being a very different thing from licensing copyrighted works.
Re:A Sad Day for Rust by rectang on Friday January 17, 2020 @08:59PM (#22081654)
Well, for jurisdictions where dedication to the public domain is not possible, CC0 includes a fallback license. I suppose I could have used the words "public domain", and that would have made the intention clearer — so thank you for raising that point. However, if you are going to do a public domain dedication, you really should use CC0!

PS: Why assume everyone is "ill-informed"? We're all learning together forever: you, me, amyjess, other readers...

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by cmiles74 on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:36AM (#22076140)
While that might have made the community feel a little better, I don't think the maintainer had to do anything, certainly they don't have to explain why they made this or that decision.

People should decide if it's a big deal for them and if it is, fork the project to fix the issue or move to another library. I have had to do this many times myself, I kind of thought that's just how things worked with smaller projects. More than once I've found someone of a like mind has _already_ forked and made the change.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by pfortuny on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:36AM (#22076137)
There is absolutely no obligation to even reply to mails. Otherwise you fall into the trap of having to explain everything to everybody and not doing your project.
Re:A Sad Day for Rust by bloodorange on Friday January 17, 2020 @03:25PM (#22078836)
Indeed. I am glad you point this out.

The level of entitlement in the discussion astonishes me. Someone has done a lot of work and offered it for free along with a license that lets people modify it and redistribute it and that is not enough. Instead of being grateful for it, people are demanding that the giver also make the changes that these people need and take on the burden of maintaining them.

To all those people: Why should he? Do it yourself or pay someone to do it. It need not be any more complicated than that.

Re:A Sad Day for Rust by kandeel4411 on Friday January 17, 2020 @11:24AM (#22075993)
I believe he already included that in the README https://github.com/actix/actix-web