News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @10:19AM (#22054898)
I hope you’re not implying the old wives tale about Apple nit allowing apps that compete with it on the store. If so, there are plenty of existence proofs that that isn’t true.
Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by logfromblammo on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @10:29AM (#22055031)
What applications in the Apple store are able to function as the default SMS app or the default web browser engine? On Android, I can use Signal for SMS and Firefox for browser engine. On my spouse's iPhone, the iOS applications with the same names are severely restricted in their functionality. Blocking ads, scripts, and tracking is significantly more difficult.

If you believe these are core OS functions, and therefore not subject to competition, Microsoft has a old story to tell you about Internet Explorer web browser and Windows 95 OS.

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @10:41AM (#22055173)
Are they allowed to be default no. Are they allowed on the App Store - yes.
Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by simion314 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @12:53PM (#22056456)
Also links in different application will open in what Apple wants not in what browser/app you would like.
Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by rickdeckard on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @11:04AM (#22055369)
Neither of those are actually available, because iOS browsers are not allowed to use other browser-engines than Safari and apps have no means to manage SMS on behalf of the iOS messaging app.
Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @11:39AM (#22055696)
Allowing third parties to intercept your SMS messages has been a security nightmare for Android.

But yes you can install a third party app like Google Voice with its own phone number and send text messages through it.

You would really trust any third party to intercept your sms messages?

On top of that, the third party dialer integrates with the native dialer and call history.

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by simion314 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @01:38PM (#22057013)
>You would really trust any third party to intercept your sms messages?

Not OP but I trust Thunderbird on my PC to access my emails so why I could not also trust a Mozilla or other trustworthy company to access my messages on my phone where in my case the SMS is used by companies to send me notifications about billing , I am the type of person that will call someone(people in my group don't send SMS)

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @02:39PM (#22057674)
So Apple should allow random third parties to intercept SMS messages because “people in your group” don’t use SMS?
Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by simion314 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @03:04PM (#22057898)
Apple should let me decide or maybe review Thunderbird and Firefox and allow them. I am wondering how can you bring this argument and at the same time you install random apps on your computer that are not made or restricted by Apple.
Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @04:42PM (#22059042)
That’s kind of my point. I’m very careful about what I install on my computer. I don’t install random crap on my computer from untrusted sources because of the lack of a sandbox.

I install any random crap on my phone and tablet because I know they can’t do too much damage between the better permission model and sandboxing.

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by simion314 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @06:03PM (#22059797)
>I install any random crap on my phone and tablet because I know they can’t do too much damage between the better permission model and sandboxing.

And how say allowing a reviewed and sandboxed Firefox or a side loaded version that I would enable using some convoluted steps affects you personally? I don't demand Apple to make you less secure just want competition and no restriction, if I need say a power tool like a firewall or to run some custom scripts as root let me as a power user do that in a way you won't be affected - there must be such a solution because I do not see OSX user getting hacked left and right.

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @06:46PM (#22060157)
I don't demand Apple to make you less secure just want competition and no restriction,

There is competition - you can choose the same mobile operating system that 85% of mobile users choose - Android.

there must be such a solution because I do not see OSX user getting hacked left and right.

A company you may have heard of corrupted user’s operating systems if they had system integrity protection turned off....

https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/15235262?hl=en

Or another “trustworthy” company installed a web server surreptitiously on users computers so even when they uninstalled the software, it reinstalled itself.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/articl...

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by simion314 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @12:52PM (#22056445)
I mean browsers, then there was an app that did some phone activity tracking and all was fine until iOS had it's own app and for some reason the old app was kicked out from the store. Then there are the cases where Apple apps have special access to APIs but a popular application like Spotify was denied access. Can you link to the case you are mentioning?
Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @01:13PM (#22056715)
The app that did “phone activity tracking” used an MDM and tracked all of your activity and stored it. This was a severe privacy concern.

Spotify - was complaining that there was no facility to integrate with Siri - Apple added intents in iOS 13.

Spotify also complained that they couldn’t do music streaming on watchOS - that was also added in the latest version of watchOS.

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by simion314 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @01:35PM (#22056974)
For the first case Apple knew about the tracking and said nothing until they had their own app - so we can defend Apple that protects the users privacy only if it benefits them.

Spotify got access months alter after complaints to the EU were made so I am not convinced that Apple is still give equal opportunities to all developers especially when better browser engines exist and you can't use them.

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @02:05PM (#22057311)
You really think that it only took “months” for Apple to create the Siri Intent for third party audio? Apple had been opening up Siri for years by adding new intents.

Apple has a long history of developing functionality and using it internally before releasing them publicly. The alternative is releasing a half baked API that it has to support forever. It’s a lot easier to change an API that is only used internally than it is to change an API which people depend on.

Yes, Apple produced a better solution than allowing random third parties the ability to record everything you do on your phone. Would you prefer that they never increase privacy and security?

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by erichocean on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @03:43PM (#22058284)
> The alternative is releasing a half baked API that it has to support forever.

You owe me a new keyboard. Apple puts out half baked APIs constantly, and drops APIs constantly. Like literally, every release they do has APIs in those two camps.

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by simion314 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @03:02PM (#22057883)
>Yes, Apple produced a better solution than allowing random third parties the ability to record everything you do on your phone. Would you prefer that they never increase privacy and security?

Using this logic you should then ot have the freedom to read your emails outside Apple browser or email client on your computers, the solution is

1 let the user decide if the trusts the third party

2 for sensitive application like mail/sms/browsers review the top 5 alternative browsers/email clients etc and allow only those, I assume Apple has the ability to say discuss with Mozilla about allowing Firefox on iOS, what APIs and what privacy rules need to be respected and then have a team of lawyers ready if Mozilla breaches the contract/promises.

My point there are solutions between the extremes of not allow thrid party access and allow any random app access.

Re:Apple’s “monopsony” power, and the woman who named it by scarface74 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @03:18PM (#22058025)
1. Right. Because historically “the user” has been very good about understanding security implications of their choices. Have you been following the PC industry for the last 30 years?

No one considers email to be secure because of if nothing else, the store and forward nature.

IMessage is end to end encrypted. Should Apple also allow third parties the ability to intercept iMessage or should they split iMessage from sms? Who does that benefit?

2. Now some developers are in a privileged position.