The ideas behind it still stand, though, in the idea of microformats. These are just standardized ways of using existing HTML to structure particular kinds of data, so any program (browser plug-in, web crawler, &c) can scrape through my data and parse it as metadata, more precisely and with greater semantic content than raw text search, but without the tedium that comes with ontologies and RDF.
Now, these ideas are about the structured exchange of information between arbitrary nodes on the internet. If every recipe site used the hRecipe microformat, for example, I could write a recipe search engine which automatically parses the given recipes and supply them in various formats (recipe card, full-page instructions, &c) because I have a recipe schema and arbitrary recipes I've never seen before on sites my crawler just found conform to this. I could write a local client that does the same thing, or a web app which consolidates the recipes from other sites into my own personal recipe book. It turns the internet into much more of a net, and makes pulling together this information in new and interesting ways tenable. In its grandest incarnation, using the whole internet would be like using Wolfram Alpha.
The #! has precisely the opposite effect. If you offer #! urls and nothing else, then you are making your site harder to process except by human beings sitting at full-stack, JS-enabled, HTML5-ready web browsers; you are actively hindering any other kind of data exchange. Using #!-only is a valid choice, I'm not saying it's always the wrong one—web apps definitely benefit from #! much more than they do from awkward backwards compatibility. But using #! without graceful degradation of your pages turns the internet from interconnected-realms-of-information to what amounts to a distribution channel for your webapps. It actively hinders communication between anybody but the server and the client, and closes off lots of ideas about what the internet could be, and those ideas are not just "SEO is harder and people can't use curl anymore."
I don't want to condemn experimentation, either, and I'm as excited as anyone to see what JS can do when it's really unleashed. But framing this debate as an argument between crotchety graybeards and The Daring Future Of The Internet misses a lot of the subtleties involved.
Also, how do you reassemble the hash-bang URL from HTTP Referrer header?
In this context hash-bang urls are broken.
Also, with that wrapper or patch, curl & wget will still not be remotely HTML5 ready, which I hope demonstrates that HTML5 is not a requirement in any way. A single HTML5-non-ready browser that can't handle this doesn't mean therefore that HTML5 is a requirement.
I hate to invoke a slippery slope, but it seems a frightening proposition that $entity can start putting out arbitrary standards and suddenly the entire Internet infrastructure has to follow suit in order to be compatible. It's happened before, e.g. favicon.ico. All of them are noble ideas (personalize bookmarks and site feel, allow Ajax content to be accessible) with troublesome implementation (force thousands of redundant GET /favicon.ico requests instead of using something like <meta>, force existing infrastructure to make changes if they want to continue operations as usual.)
All of this is moot, of course, if you just write your pages to fall back sensibly instead of doing what Gawker did and allowing no backwards-compatible text-only fallback. Have JS rewrite your links from "foo/bar" to "#!foo/bar" and then non-compliant user agents and compliant browsers are happy.
As a specific issue, that seems like a minus, but an exceedingly minor one, as lynx is probably a negligible proportion of Gawker's audience. In principle, backwards-compatibility is a great thing, until it impedes some kind of desirable change, such as doing something new or doing it more economically.
> it seems a frightening proposition that $entity can start putting out arbitrary standards
I generally do want someone putting out new standards, and sometimes it's worth breaking backwards-compatibility to an extent. So it really depends on $entity: if it's WHATWG, great. If it's Google, then more caution is warranted. But there's been plenty of cases of innovations (e.g. canvas) starting with a specific player and going mainstream from there. I do agree that Google's approach feels like an ugly hack in a way that is reminiscent of favicon.ico.
> All of this is moot, of course...
This is good general advice, but it's not always true. At least one webapp I've worked on has many important ajax-loads triggered by non-anchor elements; it's about as useful in lynx as Google maps would be. The devs could go through and convert as much as possible to gracefully-degrading anchors, that would at least partly help with noscript, but it seems like a really bad use of resources, given the goals of that app.
So perhaps the solution is for every #! page to have a meta tag pointing to the canonical API resource which it is drawing data from. Bingo, semantic web!
If the site is ajax enabled for a slicker experience, then as the user browses from here they might get something like this in their address bar:
/shop/shoes#!shop/socks
or even
/shop/shoes#!help/technical
which starts to look really weird. The google hashbang spec at least fixes this problem. The spider understands the normal URLs of the app, and will dispatch users to them.
That's one redirect to the homepage (which you're already doing by 301-redirecting the JavaScript-free URLs anyway), so it's hardly going to be difficult.
I'm puzzled, considering the haphazard redirects already going on for incoming links to hash-banged sites, why this isn't a trivial problem.
Incoming link is to /shop/shoes#!shop/socks JavaScript right at the top of /shop/shoes that window.location to /#!shop/shoes
1) The link is weird and confusing in the first place, /shop/shoes#!shop/socks refers to two different resources
2) The server will already have done work to find the shoes, when the javascript redirects to the socks page.
2.) The site is already paying this price by redirecting _escaped_fragment_ URLs, and the old clean style urls. All inbound links will have this problem, so you're only shifting some of the burden through this door instead of the others.
<a href="realurl.html" onclick="javascript_magic(); return false">
/help/thing#!/something/otherthing
Which is equally confusing and more error prone for the developers as /help/thing loads code specific to that view and then the /something/otherthing stuff is loaded too. Not insolvable and preventable by proper encapsulation, but stuff leaks, so mistakes will happen.
Just because you don't like using hashbangs does not mean no-one else can.
Sure, use of hashbangs might make seo of your site harder. Yes, it might make it harder for hackers who want to do curls of your site's pages. But maybe this is not your aim with your site.
Maybe you want to give your users a slicker experience by not loading whole new pages but instead grabs bits of new content.
The web is a place for experimentation and we as hackers should encourage such experimentation, rather than condemning it because it does not fit with how we think things should be done.