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Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by embeddedpro on Thursday January 09, 2020 @01:22PM (#22003867)
The anti competitive business practices of Apple make it hard to imagine the world could be worse.

Instead of competition, Apple survives off marketing medium quality products at high prices.

I'm not sure how that's good for anyone unless they own Apple stock.

Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by pwthornton on Thursday January 09, 2020 @03:35PM (#22005386)
You don't get to Apple is (large market cap, high customer satisfaction scores, high reviews in the tech press, etc.) because of marketing. If it were that easy, companies would just copy their marketing or load up on marketing and they would be successful.

And a huge part of Apple's current success is based on the tech and expertise they got from NeXT. That work underpins not just laptops and desktops but phones, tablets, set-top boxes, and more.

Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by generalk on Thursday January 09, 2020 @07:53PM (#22007526)
Perhaps you only get to where Apple is with world-class marketing.

Apple's iPod wasn't the first mp3 player, and it for damn sure wasn't technically superior.

The iPhone was not the first smartphone, nor the first phone with a touchscreen, nor the first phone with a web browser, nor the first phone with an App Store. It arguably had a better UX than incumbents, but better UX doesn't win markets just by dint of existing.

The iMac was a cute computer that couldn't run prevalent Windows software and didn't have a floppy drive.

Recent MacBook Pros have an awful keyboard, not just aesthetically but with known hardware problems. I understand at long last they're reverting to an older, better design.

Tech and expertise don't win just because they exist.

Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by saagarjha on Saturday January 11, 2020 @08:34AM (#22019763)
You've left out the part where Apple makes products that have user experiences that are miles ahead of whatever existed at the time.
Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by wutbrodo on Thursday January 09, 2020 @10:50PM (#22008179)
I'm as reflexively inclined as many technical people to be dismissive of marketing, but I dont think you're right here. You can't "just copy" marketing in the way you can't "just copy" anything else that a company is world-class in, and good marketing can indeed build market dominance (do you think coca cola is really a vastly superior technical innovation over Pepsi?)

The fact that it isn't a net good for users in most cases doesn't mean that it's trivial to do.

Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by lmm on Thursday January 09, 2020 @06:51PM (#22007144)
> If it were that easy, companies would just copy their marketing or load up on marketing and they would be successful.

Maybe good marketing is really hard and you can't just "copy Apple"?

Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by SllX on Thursday January 09, 2020 @02:37PM (#22004719)
If people willingly exchange currency for products from a company and are satisfied with the value that they get out of it to the point that they become repeat customers, then how can you judge that no one except stockholders are benefitting?
Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by hugi on Thursday January 09, 2020 @03:02PM (#22005023)
Because Apple obviously sucks. I don't understand how hard it is for all their happy customers to understand that they suck. /s
Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by anoncake on Thursday January 09, 2020 @03:26PM (#22005284)
Network/lock-in effects and negative externalities can easily have that result.
Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by eckza on Thursday January 09, 2020 @06:13PM (#22006883)
> negative externalities

This is very true. macOS and the iPhone, for me, went from being "obviously the very best of the best" to "the lesser of all evils".

When my 2015 rMBP finally gives up the ghost and / or when 10.13 loses compatibility with the applications I use, I have no idea what I'm going to do - probably buy another working 2015 rMBP used and pray that the Linux drivers are livable by then.

I know it's ridiculous, but it helps me fall asleep at night sometimes.

Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by OakNinja on Thursday January 09, 2020 @06:52PM (#22007157)
You don’t agree on the 16” being the spiritual successor of the mid 2015 15”?
Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by eckza on Thursday January 09, 2020 @10:23PM (#22008083)
I feel like it's a huge step in the right direction, but for my own personal use:

- I still have mostly USB 2.0 peripherals. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

- I'm still hung up on the MagSafe adapter.

- I love the form factor. The 13" display is the perfect size, for me. I could've switched to a 15" 2015 rMBP with better specs, but I hated how big it was.

- I have no interest in using any version of macOS beyond 10.13, at present.

I'm really glad that they brought the Esc key back, especially as a pretty serious vim user. I don't know, maybe I'm stuck in the past. I'm certain that many, many people are really enjoying the new Macbook Pro 16; I just really, really like this laptop. It's the best computer I've ever owned.

Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by gurkendoktor on Thursday January 09, 2020 @10:45PM (#22008162)
I'm in the same boat as the sibling poster (albeit with a 15" machine) and I'll add this:

- The TouchBar is terrible

I hope they'll bring back a non-TouchBar configuration when they release the "new" keyboard on a 13" MacBook Pro. I could live with both a 13" or 15" laptop, but right now the list of drawbacks is still 1-2 items too long.

Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by SllX on Thursday January 09, 2020 @06:17PM (#22006921)
Can? Sure. I would commend anyone that can make the case that this is the best explanation for Apple’s success as a whole though.
Re:BeOS: The Alternate Universe's Mac OS X by nl on Thursday January 09, 2020 @06:37PM (#22007052)
make it hard to imagine the world could be worse

This seems like a failure of imagination.

I'm not a huge Apple fan, but I lived through the Bad Old Microsoft of the '90s, and grew up on stories of IBM of the '80s.

Apple is nothing like them.