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Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by LeifCarrotson on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @05:48PM (#21996608)
Looks like somebody accidentally hit the "make visible to the entire planet" button on Teen Vogue's CMS instead of the "make visible to just Lauren so she can edit it and submit it to her editor".

That's the way submarine articles are written and the way a CMS works these days, no surprise to most of the people here I assume, but I still find it surprising that CMS vendors sell systems that have minimal friction required to publish something. You don't quite need an air-gapped multi-key cryptographically secure system, but a few checks by various parties that articles have been copy-edited, fact-checked, verified for browser support and accessibility, and approved by an editor would seem to alleviate a lot of embarrassing publication errors.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by tempsy on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @06:08PM (#21996771)
The problem with the "it's Teen Vogue's fault for fat fingering the publication" is that Sheryl Sandberg immediately shared the article on her personal Facebook page. I mean, are we to believe that she did not realize this was paid sponcon by her own company (PR/comms falls under her leadership) that it was "mistakenly" published and was organic content (in which case she should've known as well as they had access to FB employees with pictures inside the office).

Mistake or not, FB leadership clearly cheer led it's publication, and then walked back and claimed they had no idea this was sponsored, and only in the last hour or so said it was a "mistake" to deny it was sponsored.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by jrochkind1 on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @07:03PM (#21997140)
> are we to believe that she did not realize this was paid sponcon by her own company

Sure, I can believe it. Because facebook, and companies like them, routinely manage, via their PR departments, to get articles not different than that published without paying for it too. It's certainly the easiest way for a journalist/writer to write an article, from the press releases and interviews given to you by a company, provided on a silver platter. And there isn't a whole lot of money for articles beyond the easiest/cheapest way these days.

The division between "journalism" and "content farm" (write whatever you want that gets eyeballs, if you didn't lie about anything, that's plenty ethical!)... is increasingly a grey area.

Teen Vogue actually happens to be pretty responsible journalism that usually does better than that. But how or why would Sandberg keep track? I'm sure she knows that they got the article their PR department wanted, it literally does not matter to her whether they actually wrote a check with "for that article" in the memo line to make it formally 'sponsored content' or not.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by chucksmash on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @10:32PM (#21998320)
> Teen Vogue actually happens to be pretty responsible journalism that usually does better than that.

On what basis do you say that?

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by chipotle_coyote on Thursday January 09, 2020 @02:01AM (#21999106)
On the basis that Teen Vogue got a lot of attention around 2016–17 for its political journalism.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/12/te...

https://qz.com/866305/the-true-story-of-how-teen-vogue-got-m...

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/teen-vogues-evolution-high-f...

That primarily happened under former editor Elaine Welteroth; she left shortly after Condé Nast killed the print edition, and it's my impression that TV has been moving back toward a fashion focus -- although a glance at their web site shows that they're still doing political reporting and op-eds.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by yakshaving_jgt on Thursday January 09, 2020 @02:53AM (#21999308)
At least the second link you posted suggests that the attention they garnered was less about remarkable journalism on its own merit, and more about supporting a reactionary "woke" political narrative.

I think this is similar to the Sokal Squared[0] scandal, in that a tribe (in this case purveyors of progressivism) will judge some work unduly positively.

Put another way, Teen Vogue's notoriety at the time was less "wow, this is truly groundbreaking journalism", and more "wow! Teen Vogue usually writes about makeup, but now they've gone all serious, and they said Fuck Trump! And Fuck Trump indeed! Go Feminism!"

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by gowld on Thursday January 09, 2020 @08:48AM (#22001098)
Calling something "woke" and fabricating quotes to discredit makes you look hysterical.
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by yakshaving_jgt on Thursday January 09, 2020 @09:37AM (#22001488)
I don't understand. The word "woke" was literally used in the headline of the second article from the parent comment. Furthermore, I have not quoted anyone, therefore it is impossible for me to have "fabricated" any quotes.

I would argue that given your evidently gross misinterpretation of my comment, it is now actually you who looks hysterical.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by mirimir on Thursday January 09, 2020 @01:06PM (#22003705)
I do agree with you point about bias.

But you did "air quote" for satire.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by chipotle_coyote on Thursday January 09, 2020 @12:58PM (#22003632)
Quartz's article (the second link) made the case that Teen Vogue seemed exceptional because the general public by and large finds the idea of "women's magazines" publishing articles about anything other than fashion and makeup to be mind-blowingly weird. While I think it's true that we humans as a whole are inclined to overpraise that which we already agree with and to criticize that which we already disagree with, it's not as if the journalism landscape of 2016–17 was lacking in reporting/opinion critical of Trump. I would suggest that if TV did get disproportionate attention for theirs, it was because it ran counter to the popular stereotype of women's/teen-girl magazines, even though one could make the case -- as Quartz did -- that there's actually always been both a journalistic streak and a feminist streak in many of them.

In any case, I think the point in the context of TV publishing and unpublishing the Facebook fluff piece is that doing that sort of thing runs counter to the more recent perception of them as politically savvy enough to understand how publishing a PR-provided article like that might look to their audience in particular.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by SanchoPanda on Thursday January 09, 2020 @11:00AM (#22002235)
They also work with a number of wall street banks for research, and were chosen for this specifically for their quality and integrity. The Goldman Sachs Teen Vogue millennial market annuals come to mind. Those were great.
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by Irate on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @10:49PM (#21998410)
Good question
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by Lazare on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @08:12PM (#21997554)
> I mean, are we to believe that she did not realize this was paid sponcon by her own company

Well, first off, I doubt she wrote that FB post herself, and it's questionable if she even saw it before it went out. But even so, I'd easily believe that she thought the article was organic, not sponsored.

FB (like all other large companies, organisations, interest groups, etc.) pays a lot of money to a PR team to get content like this into publications, and it works quite well. PR flacks are constantly talking to journalists, offering info, trading favours, giving journalists access to insiders or the opportunity to do a photo shoot, and even providing "draft" articles that the journalist can use as a starting point.

These efforts succeed all the time; is it shocking that some FB execs may have believed they worked on Teen Vogue? (We're not exactly talking about the NYT here...)

From Sandberg's point of view, FB pays a lot of money to PR people to get fawning puff pieces into print, and here's a fawning puff piece in print. Why would she smell a rat?

What I want to know is, where did the communication breakdown happen? Who wrote that wording? Did everyone at FB believe they'd convinced Teen Vogue to run an organic puff piece? Was that intended to be a draft that the reporter was going to rewrite? Or was it always intended to be a sponsored post, Teen Vogue messed up by publishing it normally?

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by gowld on Thursday January 09, 2020 @08:50AM (#22001113)
Right. Interpret Sandberg's statement as "I didn't think we paid for that because I thought we already infiltrated that magazine."
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by tmpz22 on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @06:32PM (#21996945)
Can’t we assume at this point that Sandberg likely has someone posting on her behalf? Someone who likely is in PR/marketing working “next to” the person/team that spearheaded the article.

This is particularly ironic because there are likely rules against account sharing that Facebook PR does not in fact follow.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by yellow_lead on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @11:50PM (#21998661)
I hate that executives, celebrities, etc have people post on their behalf, and then people defend their posts saying "it was probably posted on their behalf." If you allow someone to write as you, it's your fault if they write something out of turn.

I know you're making a different point and not defending her, but this type of thing irks me.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by thrwaway69 on Thursday January 09, 2020 @01:54AM (#21999073)
I remember the blown up case of MKBHD being blocked by wonder woman when he pointed out in a screenshot that she used iPhone despite her being a Huawei ambassador when PRing and asking people to buy Huawei phones on Twitter.

Which was fine if she did it personally but people used it was her pr team as an excuse to shut down drama.

She unblocked MKBHD after deleting/retweeting those tweets using an android phone this time.

I found it a bit weird how her fans and most people casually ignored it using the pr team theory. That just makes it worse.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by tempsy on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @06:38PM (#21996990)
there's no way someone could've posted this on her personal FB page without her knowledge
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by SpicyLemonZest on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @07:16PM (#21997223)
Is that true? Maybe I misunderstand how powerful people typically use media, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that Sheryl Sandberg has an assistant who's allowed to post to her personal Facebook.
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by tempsy on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @07:27PM (#21997299)
you’re conflating the act of posting something with posting something you made up without approval from the person in question.
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by rtpg on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @07:04PM (#21997146)
Ok, but I think you overestimate how much micromanagement might be going on.

Simple story:

- ok we'll do a sponsored post in teen vogue - story is written up! - oh, looks like it’s out, time to post about it

There isn’t gross incompetence, at best it’s just a bit of a timing issue from the mistaken early publish.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by ajross on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @11:17PM (#21998524)
That's probably true, but not really what's newsworthy and notable here. I mean, yeah, Teen Vogue surely didn't mean to publish it like that.

But they did, and when they did Facebook promptly crowed about it and pretended that this was journalism showing (pause for breath) Facebook's dedication to honest media coverage. And it was a paid advertisement the whole time.

That's... well, just ew. And none of that has anything to do with CMS features that made the mistake visible to the public.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by azmarks on Thursday January 09, 2020 @11:11AM (#22002331)
Except that Lauren says that she didn't write the story. https://mashable.com/article/facebook-teen-vogue-sponsored-c...

"At some point, Teen Vogue contributor Lauren Rearick was listed as the author of the story. When reached for comment, Rearick told Mashable that she did not write the article.

"That isn’t my byline," she wrote over email. "I didn’t write this story.""

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by LeifCarrotson on Thursday January 09, 2020 @12:22PM (#22003216)
I don't think she wrote the article (to be clear, I also don't have any insider information on the situation). My conjecture (based on interactions with other journalists) was that the article was prepared for her by some Facebook PR firm as a draft for her to edit.

Maybe she'd decline and it would go up as sponsored/editorial content, maybe she'd soften it up a bit and write it as her own article, maybe (unlikely in this specific case, though it certainly happens in eg. trade journals) she'd sign off on the puff piece exactly as submitted. A representative from that PR firm would have called, met with, or wined and dined with her and offered it for any of the above options, perhaps with an incentive of an exclusive interview as a reward or just as a free piece of work for her to sell to TV.

I totally believe that Lauren didn't write it yet. She did write, for an example article, 'Kitsch X Justine Marjan Created a "Vote" Hair Clip' [1]. There's a significant chance that Kitsch or their PR firm contacted her and suggested that the clip might be something she's interested in writing about, perhaps including some sample copy. There's a chance she wrote that article entirely in a vaccuum, happening across an Instagram post, doing some research, making phone calls...but that's not the way most journalism happens today.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by GuiA on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @11:12PM (#21998506)
The article was modified to include "Editor's note: This is sponsored editorial content." before it was taken down. That likely excludes the "someone hit publish by accident" hypothesis.
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by cptskippy on Thursday January 09, 2020 @02:49AM (#21999291)
> I still find it surprising that CMS vendors sell systems that have minimal friction required to publish something.

They don't, they offer flexible workflow systems not unlike CI/CD pipelines. Customers just want simple and fast, so that's how they configure them.

Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by mirimir on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @05:58PM (#21996688)
Wordpress can be like that.
Re:Teen Vogue published and then deleted an uncritical story... by reilly3000 on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @09:42PM (#21998056)
Indeed it can, but there are plenty of ways to bolt on an approval workflow. I would be genuinely shocked if a large publisher didn’t have such controls.

No this was a sponsored piece that somebody sold to Facebook. This happens all the time, but Facebook’s PR activities are now under scrutiny.