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Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by jandrese on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @02:32PM (#21983770)
More to the point agriculture was risky. It allowed you to settle more people on an area of land than could be supported by pure hunter-gatherer behaviors. But this means if you have crop failure (and there are many reasons why this could happen, like weather, fire, warring hunter-gatherer tribes, blight, pestilence, etc...) then the people will starve. It's really no wonder religion became such a central part of people's lives, as they attempted to control the many factors in life that were otherwise uncontrollable at their technology level.

And of course without agriculture it's very hard to form a lasting society. People move around too much. Without society it's very hard to keep clever inventions from dying with their creator.

Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by adwn on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @03:15PM (#21984297)
> More to the point agriculture was risky.

Relying on hunting and gathering was also risky: A harsh winter would decimate your prey, and then you would starve.

Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by iguy on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @03:58PM (#21984765)
Which is why hunter-gatherers tried hard not to rely on a single source of food. The places which supported the highest densities of them, like river deltas, were places with many different ecosystems in close proximity.

I guess it's hard to have numbers, but early attempts at agricultural states (often in these same locations) seem much more fragile. Most collapsed within a few generations, to disease of humans or crops, or to weather, we can't know.

Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by adwn on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @02:33AM (#21989156)
> Which is why hunter-gatherers tried hard not to rely on a single source of food.

Neither did early agriculturists.

> early attempts at agricultural states (often in these same locations) seem much more fragile

That's because there are no hunter-gatherer states. Hunter-gatherer cultures are much too fragile to support the societal structures needed for even primitive states.

Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by iguy on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @10:26AM (#21992191)
Of course. Although I'd say it differently: pre-state people probably practiced some amount of farming, and niche-creation. But what we call a primitive state is precisely the superstructure needed to gather lots of them and make them farm for your benefit.

And to make sure it worked to your benefit (as the king) it was important that they farmed a limited number of things which were easy to keep track of, and easy to transport, and hence easy to tax. Like wheat or barley or rice, which you can inspect any time, and which ripens on a predictable date, on which your soldiers can show up to collect the rent. (And unlike potatoes.)

Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by adwn on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @01:54PM (#21994526)
You appear to be alluding to James Scott’s "Against The Grain". I do not agree with the hypothesis of that book, for reasons I'm too lazy to write down here. Sorry :-(
Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by iguy on Friday January 10, 2020 @02:44AM (#22009163)
If you have links to well-informed disagreements with that, I'd be interested to read them.
Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by adwn on Friday January 10, 2020 @05:11AM (#22009889)
All I can offer you is the comments section of Scott Alexander's book review:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/10/14/book-review-against-th...

The comments there are generally of high quality, and you'll find some good counterpoints to the book's claims.

Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by jandrese on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @05:26PM (#21985798)
The good thing about being a hunter-gatherer is you don't have roots. If the local food sources are depleted you simply move on to someplace better. Agriculture roots you to the land, especially if you had to clear the land to make room for your plants and animals. Moving becomes expensive, which makes you more vulnerable to local disruptions to the environment.
Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by adwn on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @02:00AM (#21989018)
> If the local food sources are depleted you simply move on to someplace better.

Counterpoint: "someplace better" might already be occupied by other humans. Besides, a harsh winter is not a local phenomenon, it affects entire regions. Good luck getting to "someplace better" if you're starving, don't have any transportation besides your feet, and don't even know where "someplace better" even is.

Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by jandrese on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @11:20AM (#21992751)
Then you just kill the humans in the better place and take their stuff.
Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by adwn on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @01:48PM (#21994466)
What's your point? My point was that hunting & gathering is not less risky than agriculture. Your comment would support that statement.