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Re:Why “Move Fast and Break Things” Doesn’t Work Anymore by salawat on Saturday January 04, 2020 @01:54PM (#21956612)
It comes from the fact that all the people at the top refused to back down or slow down despite all the warning flags being raised in engineering, and persisted in maintaining a system of incentives that left engineers in a position to choose between having to do something unethical, and keeping food on their family's table; all in the name of stock price.

If it were Engineers at the top, we'd probably be lambasting them for abdication of their responsibility too if they made that decision.

Make no mistake. If you would be a leader of men, tread carefully. For where you lead they will follow, and if you ignore their warnings and protestations, and lead them to calamity, upon your shoulders will rest responsibility. If you try and admit you can't make it work; no one can blame you. If you rush in as the fool convinced everything will work itself out, you were either incompetent, or worse, deranged, and thus deserving if ostracization and example-making-of.

It's just how it works.

Re:Why “Move Fast and Break Things” Doesn’t Work Anymore by a1369209993 on Saturday January 04, 2020 @05:08PM (#21957928)
> It's just how it works.

Nitpick: that's how it should work, and how HN trys to make it work (hence the so-called tribalism), but in many cases those rushing fools get a golden parachute and a cushy retirement while leaving a straw-stuffed limited-liability corporation to be "held accountable" for liabilities it no longer has the assets to meet. And that's if they can't use superior legal funds, PR, and lobbying to shift those liabilities onto engineers or dismiss them entirely.

Re:Why “Move Fast and Break Things” Doesn’t Work Anymore by jevgeni on Saturday January 04, 2020 @02:43PM (#21956947)
While I agree with your point, I don't agree with the idea, that the engineers there are some Dickensian exploited workers struggling to feed their starving family. Those are white collar middle class employees mostly.
Re:Why “Move Fast and Break Things” Doesn’t Work Anymore by salawat on Saturday January 04, 2020 @04:33PM (#21957740)
How many other Aerospace companies are out hiring right now?

The answer? Not many. The industry is highly consolidated at this point. So the competition that normally ensures workers can vote with their feet isn't there.

So... Yeah. When you're already hired by the biggest actor in town, the ethical calculus changes whether you want to admit it or not.

Re:Why “Move Fast and Break Things” Doesn’t Work Anymore by bumby on Monday January 06, 2020 @09:45AM (#21969446)
How many would you consider a reasonable amount for competition? There's 15 showing up on a cursory Indeed search, not to mention civil service entities that hire AEs
Re:Why “Move Fast and Break Things” Doesn’t Work Anymore by CSSer on Saturday January 04, 2020 @02:46PM (#21956971)
Ethical decisions have consequences that include blame.

Engineers are well-paid, highly sought after individuals. As long as they manage their finances responsibly, walking away from a job should not be as dire as you make it sound.

Re:Why “Move Fast and Break Things” Doesn’t Work Anymore by salawat on Saturday January 04, 2020 @04:53PM (#21957844)
Well I can only speak from the point of being the bread winner for my household which the last few years has been getting hit hard by medical crisis after medical crisis, and despite every effort at cost cutting and saving, what cushion I've built up slowly gets consumed. And I'm in software.

The Aerospace folks don't enjoy the luxury of the exaggerated salary, last I checked.

So maybe there's some bias there. However, the circles I wander tend to face the same financial struggles as well. Just speaking from experience.

Re:Why “Move Fast and Break Things” Doesn’t Work Anymore by bumby on Monday January 06, 2020 @09:48AM (#21969474)
Aerospace engineers trend higher than most software engineer salaries.[1][2][3][4]

I don't know if you work in SV, but that may skew your perception on salary.

[1] https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/17-2011.00

[2] https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/15-1133.00

[3] https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/15-1132.00

[4] https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/15-1131.00