The only reason Iran doesn't entirely fit your profile is because it's not a real superpower but merely a wannabe empire, not able to entirely get away with the evil stuff it does.
Go ahead and point me to where I said it or assumed it.
But I just wanted to let you know, I have only one upvote to give, but I'll take the downvotes along with you.
We must not stand for the Western aggression to go unacknowledged, nor must we civilised people with the luxury of functioning society (i.e. bridges not yet bombed) allow the war criminals to escape justice.
Every single time the people of the USA assassinate another sovereign entities citizens around the world, it makes itself another few million enemies who would gladly shun Americans, individually, for the deeds of their state.
It is a terrible state of affairs - but rest assured, not everyone sees war as inevitable. We must resist.
It's millions now? Seems like every day, the propaganda keeps increasing the number.
> It's currently #1 world news that their top official got bombed by the US while busy meddling in Iraqi affairs.
So the country on the other side of the world that is bombing Iraqis is not meddling? Was it the general of a neighboring country the one that was "meddling" or was the US the one that is "meddling".
You rarely see a twofer. An anti-china and anti-iran propaganda straight from the pentagon talking point.
"In war, truth is the first casualty." -- Aeschylus
That's been "the number" for a while now. E.g. Shohrat Zakir, chairman of Xinjiang, said during a press conference, when asked about the number of affected persons 一些媒体称新疆教培中心学员“有上百万甚至两百万”，纯属捏造、毫无根据 "Some media claim that Xinjiang's education centers hold 'a million or even two" students, this is completely made up and baseless." However, he failed to provide an alternative number, so "millions" is the best estimate available.
http://www.scio.gov.cn/xwfbh/xwbfbh/wqfbh/39595/42206/index....
We compare it with the million innocent people America slaughtered in its illegal wars, and which it continues to slaughter with impunity, under the cover of its heinous "Coalition" quasi-sovereign joint task forces, which exist solely to let Americans get away with murder, while none of us are looking/able to witness the horror.
Now, on top of that, like - really seriously here - America has actual concentrations camps of its own: it's prisons.
Which nation on Earth has the highest portion of its population working as indentured slaves for less than $1 a day in a for-profit complex run by a cabal?
It is not China, or at least .. it could be.
But hey, lets solve one problem at a time. Want to bomb China into letting its slaves free, or maybe pay more attention to the local, at home policies which produce the same conditions, different brand ..
I am a Belarusian replying to an Ukrainian in a comment thread about Russia, China and Iran. Nice rant though.
Please don't engage with this individual in a flame war.
The main point was that the United States has invaded a lot of countries since 1949, and currently occupies a lot of those territories.
Please stop contributing to it.
The whole conflict started when Russian GRU officer brought a team of Russian military, captured some local buildings and started a revolt. It’s all public info for gods sake, there’s no longer need to spread propaganda about Ukrainian nazis anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
Therefore it's no longer bad for someone else to do it.
?
I'm not seeing the 'good guy' POV here.
Its a very untidy and uncomfortable discussion to have. All you have to do, is gain an understanding of the people who have been victimised by the Wests' illegal wars.
All other political biases fall to the side when confronted with an armless orphan who has been carried across Europe by her younger brother.
Geographically, Americans do not have the wherewithal to deal with this reality. American tourists don't go to the refugee camp facilities - they'd rather see the concentration camp museum.
If they did, indeed, have an idea of what life is like as a war refugee, say .. as a Yemeni or Syrian or Libyan or Iraqi child .. I believe the American people would finally arrest their war criminals. That is really the only way for the people of America to redeem themselves, and yet it gets harder and harder every day ..
It seems like there should be a better system globally but right now it's like a struggle of ant hills and maybe this is how the human race got to the level it is at. Through struggle and selection.
Iran has been treated badly by the west no doubt. But their hands are not clean either. Was not this commander killed in Iraq organizing pro Iranian militias? From the point of view of the US can they allow Iran to become the dominant power in this oil rich world crossroads region? They can't and they won't. It's really that simple. "Right" only marginally enters into this equation. I guess I'd feel much more badly had the commander been killed in Iran organizing soup kitchens for the poor. But he was poking a bees nest and the results were as expected.
In the specific case of Crimea, it's much more complicated than that. It is an invasion, but there's much more about it than just "Russia invading neighbors", you're oversimplifying things.
Russia invaded the Crimean Oblast within Ukraine, rather than all of Ukraine.
In the Soviet Union, Crimea was an Oblast of the Russian SFSR. First secretary Nikita Khrushchev, who was of Ukranian origin, transferred the governance of the Crimean oblast from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR in 1954 as a "symbolic gesture".
But after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, many Russians (an ethnic majority inside Crimea) were not satisfied with the resulting situation.
I'm sure if one tries hard enough, they can find some kind of justifications for a lot of Russia's actions, but the bigger picture remains unchanged: Russia is a giant dick and most of its neighbours are afraid of it. Hence NATO.
Russia also occupying parts of Donetsk and Luhansk.
> many Russians were not satisfied with the resulting situation, including Russians living in Crimea
Pre-war sociology shows 38% of Crimean residents wanted to join Russia, that number declining over time: https://www.km.ru/world/2012/09/14/polozhenie-russkoyazychno... (Russian). 38% is indeed many people, but that’s still a minority.
The protests in Kiev and other cities were violent and out of control. Ukraine was 6 months away from an election which they could have normally voted out their president, but, the people overthrew the government instead. Since then, the country has been so much worse off economically and socially. People have barely any money to pay their gas bills or buy luxury food items such as almonds. The GDP is currently one of the lowest of any countries in the world.
Other regions in the country such as the Donbass also never wanted to overthrow their president, which is why they began their separatist movement which led to its current civil war.
Crimea got a lucky break that it had the history that it does, and that all the Russian speaking population was there, and that there was Russian military presence there to enforce peace.
Maybe pre-sociology shows 38% pre Ukrainian protests in 2012, but, a lot changed in 2 years during that complete anarchy in most Ukrainian cities such as Kiev, Odessa, and the atempted Anarchy in Donetsk. The people of Crimea very simply just want stability and peace, like most people do.
> 97 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation with an 89 percent voter turnout.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum
Technically that’s true, but it’s important to remember the protest was peaceful for couple months. Then police started the violence. People have a right of self-defense.
> the country has been so much worse off economically and socially
Despite Ukraine have been fighting Russian army for almost 5 years now, what you’re saying is not true: https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per-capita-ppp
> one of the lowest of any countries in the world
Not true. Ukraine is near the median, doing better than India or Philippines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP...
> which is why they began their separatist movement which led to its current civil war
Neither of that is true. The “separatists” for the “separatists movement” were Russian military personnel or special forces. The war ain’t civil, there’re tons of factual evidence of direct Russian army involvement.
Wow, that sounds familiar. Like Hawaii, California Bear revolt, Texas revolution.
>Technically that’s true, but it’s important to remember the protest was peaceful for couple months. Then police started the violence. People have a right of self-defense.
Violent protest is not the answer, not when they had an election coming up very soon.
> Despite Ukraine have been fighting Russian army for almost 5 years now, what you’re saying is not true:
Millions of people have fled the country to work abroad in countries like Poland and Russia, among other countries in Western Europe. The common people do not have enough money to pay their gas bills, to pay for their heating in brutal winters. Your graph displaying some growth "per capita growth", have a look at this graph showing the value of their currency
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=UAH&to=USD&view=10Y
In terms of socially, absolutely it is worse. No one can afford to buy any import goods. There are dozens of reports of mass emigration, and the people that stay now almost all own guns in fear. You can't tell me that this is socially better than how Ukraine was before the revolution.
>Not true. Ukraine is near the median, doing better than India or Philippines:
Ukraine was a developed nation. It had all the potential to be a manufacturing and tech powerhouse. It was a country filled with brilliant minds, engineers and hardworking people. Many of which have now fled the country. If you seriously want to compare Ukraine to India (where they don't have access to clean water or sanitation) and make that the bar for Ukraine then this discussion with you truly is fruitless.
>Neither of that is true. The “separatists” for the “separatists movement” were Russian military personnel or special forces. The war ain’t civil, there’re tons of factual evidence of direct Russian army involvement.
I think it's pretty clear that the Donbass separatists are backed with Russian aid. No one is disputing that. But it is not Russian Military doing the fighting, which is a difference.
It's the people of the Donbass fighting for their own rights. The people on the front lines are people of the Donbass. USA sends military personnel to train the Ukrainian Army, and Russia probably trains people of the Donbass as well. At the end of the day it's the people of the Donbass on the front lines fighting for their rights.
This tit for tat argument needs to end. Seriously, people in Ukraine are so much worse off today than they were before the revolution.
Too bad the old Ukrainian government didn’t know it, and started to use violence against it’s own people.
> Millions of people have fled the country to work abroad
The economy is global, air travel is cheap, Internet simplified things a lot. Ukraine is no exception. Globally, 258 million people, myself included, are living outside their country of birth.
> Your graph displaying some growth "per capita growth", have a look at this graph showing the value of their currency
That graph is in USD after adjustments for purchasing power. Currency exchange rates are irrelevant.
> No one can afford to buy any import goods
In 2018, Ukraine has imported goods worth 56 billion USD, smartphones alone were just under $1B: http://www.worldstopexports.com/ukraines-top-10-imports/
> There are dozens of reports of mass emigration
There’s no mass emigration, net migration is around zero: https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/ukrstat-migration-statisti...
> But it is not Russian Military doing the fighting
Russians started the war, and they did the fighting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Strelkov_(officer) Their armed forces are still there. It doesn’t matter they deny that, way too much documentary evidence of their direct involvement, for instance read links from that article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_...
Violent protest is always greeted with crowd control. In Every Country. You seem to be forgetting that the Ukrainian population caused a revolution, instead of waiting for the election for a few more months.
Have a look at the violence from protestors just before it all fell apart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stK3YPz6WTc
The people are worse off today than they were before. Not everyone supported their revolution, and you can deny that all you want, but, the people in the Donbass don't want to be a part of the circus that is Ukraine in its current state.
> Currency exchange rates are irrelevant.
Clearly I'm beating a dead horse. I don't know where to begin explaining to you that currency is not irrelevant.
About the mass emigration, these are people who have not filed for citizenship with other countries because in a lot of circumstances they cannot. No one is coming to Ukraine looking at it as a desirable place to live at the moment. There are less jobs in Ukraine, there is less trade in Ukraine, people have no choice but to work abroad.
Yes, I am also aware of the cases of some defected ex-Russian military helping the Donbass fighters, but, again you keep ignoring the fact that 99% of the population enlisted in fighting are citizens of the Donbass...
How can you honestly argue that the status quo is better than it was before the revolution? What are you even arguing?
That's 89% turnout, with international observers being denied entry. Compared to presidential election 2010 where Crimea had only 63.1% voters that bothered to act.
If there was another referendum today, and the people were given an option today, what do you think they would vote for?
You never hear from Crimeans complaining about the referendum result in any way.
Those people dodged a huge bullet and they know that. Ukraine is a mess, and perhaps one day when the fighting in Ukraine ends, when the corruption ends, someone should ask those people what they want to do.
Depends on how you define “the people”. Are you going to ask Russians who moved to Crimea after the annexation? Are you going to ask Ukrainians who were unhappy with the shenanigans, and fled their homeland?
> You never hear from Crimeans complaining about the referendum result in any way.
Lack of complains can’t be interpreted as a sign as support, because many people were imprisoned, tortured, and/or killed for such complains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru...
Sure, I will clarify what I meant to you. Ask the same people that lived in Crimea at the time the original referendum took place.
>Lack of complains can’t be interpreted as a sign as support, because many people were imprisoned, tortured, and/or killed for such complains:
Lots of footage in Crimea during that time. There were no protests against the referendum. Vice News was filming the whole thing, along with other members of the press. No one was tortured to join Russia as you say. There was a vote, with some minorities that were upset by the outcome.
Economically speaking the people of Crimea caught a huge break. Ukraine has to realize that it needs to work with all neighbours. Look to countries that are successful by example. Do you see France boycotting Germany? Do you see China boycotting Japan? Fighting is the problem. Not listening to your people is the problem. Using scapegoats and boogymen instead of fighting internal corruption is the problem. Ignoring economic development is the problem.
> Ethnic Russians constituted a majority of the population in Crimea
https://www.britannica.com/place/Crimea/History
About other oblasts like Donetsk and Luhansk, I don't think Russia has a way to make those territorial claims look legitimate.
Russia is invading neighbours, actively escalating military tensions and sabre rattling.
They don't really fit the same profile as Iran currently does.
Feel free to walk me through the 'good guy' point of view of the people who invaded my home country, shot down a passenger plane, and got away with complete impunity.
There are no good or bad guys. All the superpwers are dicks, that's how they got to being superpwers.