> Steve Klabnik will predictably reply to me saying that it was the decision of the community and blah blah

Baiting people like this is inherently uncivil.

> the Mozilla Corporation should not have allowed it.

Mozilla has no say over what the Rust community does.

Yep, thank you, on both counts.

While I'm not happy with Discord either: Mozilla does not own Rust in any way, so they cannot decide what communication tool the Rust community uses.

Every fulltime Rust developer is paid by Mozilla.

Saying Rust development isn't owned by Mozilla is more laughable than saying Go development isn't owned by Google.

That’s not how governance works.

Governance doesn't preclude the organisation which pays for the developers to have them do something else.

Goverance: We should complete the async work before we do X

Pay master: We need X done. Do the async work later.

i.e. the person who is paying the money gets to set the priority.

“We need x done” can’t be done at all until it’s approved by those who govern the project.

Actual example of this: years ago, the Servo team really would have liked a form of inheritance, to help with DOM stuff. We thought it wouldn’t be right for the language. Rust still doesn’t have inheritance today.

This argument is also predicated on the idea that full time devs get more done than part time ones do. That’s true in a one on one comparison, but there are far more part time ones, so collectively they do way more work.

Agreed, this together with how they handled the redesign of the website left a sour taste in my mouth. Especially with the promised retrospective that has been promised for over a year now; there have been at least two posts on the internals forum about the followup but still nothing. It's frustrating, especially because both decisions felt like they were made in a vacuum without properly listening to the community; chiefly how the redesign suddenly was suddenly announced close to the 2018 edition release and a whole lot of the feedback and criticism has not yet been addressed. The website still does not have syntax highlighting [0] nor a snippet of Rust code on the frontpage [1], not to mention the lack of addressing the change in the pitch used on the frontpage (compared to the previous website [2]). The language itself is amazing and I love using it and, the community is awesome and I for the most part think the governance is great; but on some issues they have some catching up to do.

[0]: https://www.rust-lang.org/what/networking [1]: https://www.rust-lang.org/ [2]: https://prev.rust-lang.org/en-US/

And bad accessibility too, which I would argue goes against the Rust project's inclusivity message.

But I do not think it is up to Mozilla corporation to pick communication platform for Rust, that is not their job. The blame lies squarely on the Rust project.

So you want mozco to go against the community's and project leaders decisions?

Do you see the problem with that line of thinking or do I have to explain further?

(Also, Rust isn't under MoCo, it's under MoFo directly.)

Rust isn't "under" either. The core team, who are ultimately in charge, don't report to anybody in the Mozilla organization.

In which way? I've thought the Rust engineers were employees of the Mozilla corporation? And the Rust trademark seems to be owned by the Mozilla corporation as well: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87796977&caseSearchType=U...

All Mozilla employees working on Rust are under Moco, not Mofo, that's correct. Unless something extremely drastic that nobody has talked about has happened in the last year.

Almost all of Mozilla is under Moco.

Yes, if you are getting paid by someone you should do what they ask of you, especially when it's something sensible.

Most Rust contributors are not Mozilla employees. Even in the core team, 3 of 9 members weren't (as of 2017, may be different today),

It is 3 of 9 today as well. (In 2017 it was higher!)

So if I give you a dollar you'll stop commenting?

If you were paying me to comment and you wanted me to stop commenting, yes definitely.

I could go my own way and comment for free (as I already do) and then I would be able to do whatever I wanted.

But as long as I am funded by you, yes I should do what you ask of me.

Wouldn't you have a choice between continuing to get paid or continuing to comment? And what if I already knew your decision would be to stop getting paid and quit HN but I still needed you to continue being on HN because your presence here was valuable to me? Would that not mean that I'm paying you, but I can't force you to do anything without harming myself much more than you?

Haven't you heard? Nuance isn't a thing anymore. All decisions are binary. Get with the times.

AFAICT they moved off IRC in response to Mozilla's announcement that it was being deprecated and also because IRC was terrible. They tried Zulip but concluded it wouldn't work well. There was already a community Discord server doing well so they set up an official one.

I suspect they might move back to Mozilla's Riot/Matrix instance once it's set up in production, but that hasn't happened yet.

This is sort of correct but also not, exactly. Most of the teams are on Discord, but a few are on Zulip. The Embedded Working Group is on Matrix.

In general, the teams are allowed to organize themselves as they wish.

Zulip is still being used for official discussion though. Discord isn't the only chat platform Rust uses.